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  #1  
Old 11-24-2010, 10:57 AM
Frederico Frederico is offline
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Default To or not to make a detour from Martin to Bourgeois? (OOO-18GE vs Signature OM)

Once I have had OOO-28VS and D-18GE (all bought new recently), my Taylor days were over (still have an 814ce cedar top for sale if you’re interested). I particularly like the clean and crisp fundamental tone of Adirondack/Mahogany from D-18GE, so I was looking again for another Martin in same wood combo but in a smaller OM body.

I was about to strike a deal on an OOO-18GE hoping that would be a perfect match with D-18GE I own. But I was at awe when seeing a beautiful picture of Bourgeois Signature OM on a dealer’s website. It has Adirondack top and Madagascar Rosewood back and sides. Although it is more pricy than OOO-18GE and doesn’t have Mahogany back and sides, reviews and comments from internet sites all pointed to a wonderful piece of instrument in tone and craftsmanship.

I’m not sure if I should make a breakaway from Martin and get this Bourgeois Signature OM instead of OOO-18GE. I already have an adi/mahogany (though different body style/size) and a bit of variety may not hurt. As I cannot play either one of the two locally, I have to buy unsighted/unplayed. Any comments on what I gain/give up if I go for the Bourgeois?

Also there is a cheaper Vintage OM that has EIR instead Madagascar wood. Are they close in tone?
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2010, 11:06 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederico View Post
Once I have had OOO-28VS and D-18GE (all bought new recently), my Taylor days were over (still have an 814ce cedar top for sale if you’re interested). I particularly like the clean and crisp fundamental tone of Adirondack/Mahogany from D-18GE, so I was looking again for another Martin in same wood combo but in a smaller OM body.

I was about to strike a deal on an OOO-18GE hoping that would be a perfect match with D-18GE I own. But I was at awe when seeing a beautiful picture of Bourgeois Signature OM on a dealer’s website. It has Adirondack top and Madagascar Rosewood back and sides. Although it is more pricy than OOO-18GE and doesn’t have Mahogany back and sides, reviews and comments from internet sites all pointed to a wonderful piece of instrument in tone and craftsmanship.

I’m not sure if I should make a breakaway from Martin and get this Bourgeois Signature OM instead of OOO-18GE. I already have an adi/mahogany (though different body style/size) and a bit of variety may not hurt. As I cannot play either one of the two locally, I have to buy unsighted/unplayed. Any comments on what I gain/give up if I go for the Bourgeois?

Also there is a cheaper Vintage OM that has EIR instead Madagascar wood. Are they close in tone?
I have a house full of Martins but I love Bourgeois too..........

To me an 000-18GE and Singature OM are different guitars, the GE is more of a Bluegrasser/flatpicker and the Sig. OM more fingerstyle, I would base it on what styles you play.

Also if you want similar to the dread, which is what I want too, OM's are much closer than short scale 000's, so an OM-18GE to me is much closer to a D-18GE (I own an '04).

I have EIR and Madi Martins...........I like Madagascar! Happy shopping!
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2010, 11:08 AM
kirkham13 kirkham13 is offline
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I would say yes, go to Bourgeois, if you want a better looking instrument, with a phenominal feeling neck that plays like butter, and has a sweet tone..

What you won't get is a cannon, IMOP, the Bourgeois is more suited to fingerstyle and has more of a light touch. Mine is sitka/indian, so the one you are looking at should have more volume and bass, and I would go in that direction if I purchased another..

On the other hand, Martin GE is a great guitar...

If finances are an issue you could see if someone has a used example they are willing to sell you-I would guess the typical Bourgeois owner babies their guitar-
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:40 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederico View Post
Once I have had OOO-28VS and D-18GE (all bought new recently), my Taylor days were over (still have an 814ce cedar top for sale if you’re interested). I particularly like the clean and crisp fundamental tone of Adirondack/Mahogany from D-18GE, so I was looking again for another Martin in same wood combo but in a smaller OM body.

I was about to strike a deal on an OOO-18GE hoping that would be a perfect match with D-18GE I own. But I was at awe when seeing a beautiful picture of Bourgeois Signature OM on a dealer’s website. It has Adirondack top and Madagascar Rosewood back and sides. Although it is more pricy than OOO-18GE and doesn’t have Mahogany back and sides, reviews and comments from internet sites all pointed to a wonderful piece of instrument in tone and craftsmanship.

I’m not sure if I should make a breakaway from Martin and get this Bourgeois Signature OM instead of OOO-18GE. I already have an adi/mahogany (though different body style/size) and a bit of variety may not hurt. As I cannot play either one of the two locally, I have to buy unsighted/unplayed. Any comments on what I gain/give up if I go for the Bourgeois?

Also there is a cheaper Vintage OM that has EIR instead Madagascar wood. Are they close in tone?
Hi Frederico,
I convinced Sam Ash, NYC to take on Dana Bourgeois when I worked there, so I've always been a fan of his building.

Dana's instruments are very informed by vintage Martins, through and through, but he has his own way of doing it, especially with his arching of flat tops.

I always thought that his mahogany OM was about the best new guitar I had ever tried.

I can only speak about that generation of his building (mid 1990's) and in that regard the neck shapes were quite different than what you'd get from Martin.

Knowing that, I think the only thing you should make sure of is that you play one or two for a spell and get a sense of how it feels in your hands.

Of course if you're as open minded as I am about large necks, just go for it. I can adjust to almost anything.

A Bourgeois should make a fine addition to any group of Martins you have.

Happy Hunting!

HE
http://www.howardemerson.com/
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Fred Fred is offline
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That's an interesting decision. You'd be moving from a REALLY GOOD factory guitar to a REALLY GOOD small-shop guitar. Since you're already into Martins, maybe the slight change would be interesting. I'd probably buy the Bourgeois if it came with a trial period in which it could be returned (at your expense) if you did't like it. In my experience, the top wood determines tone far more than the body wood, and the hands of the builder may make more difference than either. I'm not a Bourgeois owner (and have never played one), but I gather their owners like them a lot.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:51 AM
Frederico Frederico is offline
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Howard,

“Of course if you're as open minded as I am about large necks, just go for it. I can adjust to almost anything.”

I’m quite getting used to D-18GE’s modified V neck, which some people consider it “large”. Do you mean Bourgeois OM’s neck is similar to martin’s modified V?

Fred
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:17 PM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederico View Post
Howard,

“Of course if you're as open minded as I am about large necks, just go for it. I can adjust to almost anything.”

I’m quite getting used to D-18GE’s modified V neck, which some people consider it “large”. Do you mean Bourgeois OM’s neck is similar to martin’s modified V?

Fred
Hi Fred,
That Martin did not exist when I was worked in NYC so I never got to play them side by side.

I just remember, at the time, that Dana's neck profile was not only a large V, but also had a bunch of meat on the cheeks. Perhaps even more important was the neck taper from nut to saddle.

Dana was making his nut width something like 1 & 23/32" (slightly under 1.75") but then it was about 2 & 3/8" at the saddle, so the taper was more 'severe', for lack of a better word.

The Martin Paul Simon model was similar in the string geometry, if not the exact specs.

In any case what I say or remember means absolutely nothing: Your hands are different than mine, and what the majority of people seem to never pay attention to is how sensitive the human body is to minute differences.

You may also be much taller than I, play off your left leg, stand when you play, etc, etc.................Go try one.

HE
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:39 PM
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drcmusic7 drcmusic7 is offline
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Hi Fred,

I own a 2010 Bourgeois DB OM signature. I have also played a couple Martin 000-18GEs. They're very different guitars but both really wonderful. All the Martin GE's i've played have been really wonderful, among the best of the newer Martin's, IMHO.

My Bourgeois has a very slight V profile which i'm guessing some would call a modified V. It's less pronounced than my two vintage martins (a 61 and a 37) and quite comfortable. In my experience the Bourgeois is more balanced and has a deeper, richer more complex voice. It's really pretty amazing actually. Also the fit and finish on the Bourgeois is flawless. I bought mine this past summer and with moving haven't had a chance to set it up yet but the factory action is a little high, for my taste...

If you can get the chance to play them together that would be ideal but if not I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot on a Bourgeois.

I bought mine from Artisan guitars in Franklin, TN. They're a good group of folks that might be able to help more. Here are some pictures of mine...









Hope this helps...

Kindly,
Danny
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:51 PM
TaylorKoaFan TaylorKoaFan is offline
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I love my Bourgeois OM. It remains the best guitar I've had the pleasure of playing. I wouldn't hesitate on pulling the trigger on the Sig OM you've found.

With that said, I think the GE line of Martin's are excellent.

Good luck.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:05 PM
sayheyjeff sayheyjeff is offline
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Not exactly the guitars you are comparing and considering, but I found that the Bourgeois Alan Simpson I bought to be a great complement to my Martin 00017s. Gives me a larger guitar that can produce more volume, a spruce-rosewood combo that is nice variety for me with the Martin hogtop. The Bourgeois is going to be a really nicely made instrument just like everyone says. Mine was built in 1990 and has a very soft V shaped neck design. My favorite neck profile is the Martin low profile, but this soft V hasn't proven to be a problem at all. Drove over 3 hours each way to try the Bourgeois, but I know that is not possible for everyone. Ultimately, you have identified a couple of really nice guitars.

jeff
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Frederico Frederico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcmusic7 View Post
Hi Fred,

I own a 2010 Bourgeois DB OM signature. I have also played a couple Martin 000-18GEs. They're very different guitars but both really wonderful. All the Martin GE's i've played have been really wonderful, among the best of the newer Martin's, IMHO.

My Bourgeois has a very slight V profile which i'm guessing some would call a modified V. It's less pronounced than my two vintage martins (a 61 and a 37) and quite comfortable. In my experience the Bourgeois is more balanced and has a deeper, richer more complex voice. It's really pretty amazing actually. Also the fit and finish on the Bourgeois is flawless. I bought mine this past summer and with moving haven't had a chance to set it up yet but the factory action is a little high, for my taste...

If you can get the chance to play them together that would be ideal but if not I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot on a Bourgeois.

I bought mine from Artisan guitars in Franklin, TN. They're a good group of folks that might be able to help more. Here are some pictures of mine...









Hope this helps...

Kindly,
Danny
Danny,

PM sent.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:28 PM
JonBarclay JonBarclay is offline
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Frederico

I also own a 2010 DB signature OM (same as above). It is a PHENOMENAL guitar, the tone is lovely for fingerstyle - quite a pronounced fundamental but with overtones that don't overwhelm it - and there's more than enough headroom from the Adirondack to really dig in if required. I cannot recommend it enough!

As far as the ergonomics go, I moved to it from a Collings OM1H, and until recently also had a Martin 000-16RGT. The Bourgeois felt very comfortable compared to both of them - didn't feel like any adjustment was needed to play it.

Jon B
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:00 PM
fenderball fenderball is offline
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Ever Tried A Martin Omjm?
Sweet Guitars, Great Size And Tone...
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:10 PM
mmasters mmasters is offline
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I'd go OOO-18 check out the tone on these vintage ones:

http://www.dreamguitars.com/products...0-18_72581.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4A6DQuZHuc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mwReFbsSZ8

I'm thinking about getting one for myself and putting it through my process
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:40 PM
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Collings OM2H?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4XsZIm9SA

That video was posted by an AGF member, postprimitive, recently. I think it's a very eloquent, expressive instrument.
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