NGD - Joining the Rainsong club! - Page 2

jonfields45 · #16 07-24-2012, 05:25 PM

I think what you are seeing is normal for RainSong. They use the more expensive pre-impregnated (with epoxy) graphite fabric to build the body. There is a minimum of epoxy to settle smoothly against the mold. A thicker finish would make it perfect, but likely not be the best sound option. The RainSong neck is dry fabric shaped in a full enclosing mold with epoxy injected into it. Given there is a core for the neck prior to wrapping in fabric, the amount of epoxy is still modest, but the fabric-mold interface is fully filled by epoxy using this method (BTW not the best way to build a light body in a one sided mold and vacuum bag). You will see the neck finish has no "settling" into the "grain" of the graphite fabric. So bottom line, I think they still look great, and my opinion is they would only sound worse and be heavier if they made the finish on the body absolutely smooth perfection. I've owned two gloss RainSongs and I could see what you are seeing in both. I imagine this would be worse for the black ice where the fabric is intentionally cut into smaller pieces to get the visual effect. The unidirectional outer layer top on my CO-DR shows none of this, but unidirectional fabric has its own unique variations which you can see as natural art, or imperfections, based on your point of view. Jon

AndyFrank · #17 07-24-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarPhan

Well my Black Ice WS1000 arrived and it's gorgeous and sounds fantastic. What a work of art. It was in perfect tune, too. Wow. I can't wait to get it home and plug it in...

The only minor question I have is about some slight deviations in the finish. There are 8-10 areas where the finish seems to have "settled," mostly aligning with the edges of the fiber pieces underneath. In two small areas, too, you can actually see the tiny zig-zag/fishbone-ish pattern (in the carbon fiber) in the mirror finish -- like it might be too thin. You have to look for these, to be honest, and they only show up when you reflect light off off them. I just wonder if these are within normal ranges and if other RS owners have these as well. This issue is a complete surprise to me; I don't want to over-react to it but I also want to know that I'm getting an appropriate level of quality in this (for me) major purchase! And nothing I'm saying here should reflect poorly in any way on LA Guitar Sales or Rainsong. The service and pricing I got on this was excellent and this guitar meets every other of my expectations.

I sent some photos of the finish issue to Rainsong to see what they say -- but otherwise, wow... I'm impressed.

I have an Santa Cruz OM/PW with some sort of light finish that absolutely shows the wood grain and lines between top and binding if I hold it up to the light just right, I called SCGC and was told the thinner finish is by design to enhance tone, guessing this is the same for Rainsong. Congrats on your new black ice!

Greg Downey · #18 07-24-2012, 08:49 PM

i played one of those once.......and they are awesome. i dont understand why i never see one in a music store. probably cuz i live in texas. but....ive toured the whole country - and europe. and only seen a carbon guitar once.

GuitarPhan · #19 07-25-2012, 09:20 AM

Jon, thanks for that info; I do completely get that they're trying to keep the finish on these as thin as possible, and these "deviations" are indeed pretty minor. And part of the "every Black Ice is unique" idea, which they certainly are. Besides, I played this baby a lot last night and we've already bonded really well.

Super clarity on all notes, all over the neck, like I haven't heard in any other guitar; perfect intonation all over the place; plays just great. Just a real pleasure to play; actually exceeded my expectations in many ways, and I know I'm going to enjoy this guitar for the rest of my life.

Dru Edwards · #20 07-25-2012, 02:08 PM

GuitarPhan - Great to hear that you've bonded with your Rainsong! Are you planning on taking it anywhere where you might be worried taking a "wood" guitar?

GuitarPhan · #21 07-25-2012, 02:37 PM

I have three gigs in the next four days, Dru, in very warm weather where I've already experienced tuning issues with a very good wooden guitar. That was the impetus for taking a good look at Rainsongs. Really excited to be playing it out; it's gonna be fun.

Dru Edwards · #22 07-25-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarPhan

I have three gigs in the next four days, Dru, in very warm weather where I've already experienced tuning issues with a very good wooden guitar. That was the impetus for taking a good look at Rainsongs. Really excited to be playing it out; it's gonna be fun.

Can't wait to hear how the gigs turn out. Let us know ... and good luck!

short bald guy · #23 07-25-2012, 08:42 PM

I finally took the Taylor 814ce out of it's case after 3 months with the Rainsong. I like the Rainsong better. And it's a dread, but quite clear compared to the Taylor. And the Taylor is a very nice guitar..... Easily one of the better guitars that I have owned, but this Rainsong is v-e-r-y nice to hear and play.
Been gassing for the jumbo.
Sell the Taylor? or not.

GuitarPhan · #24 07-26-2012, 12:14 AM

Well I wish I had better news to report after performing with the new Rainsong tonight. I got it yesterday, and since I live in a condo, I plugged it in last night but couldn't turn it up much at all. But the Fishman pickup, with a brand-new battery, didn't even work for a few minutes. No signal, no tuning feature of course. Took the battery out, put it back in. Yes, it was in correctly. Found that when i strummed at least 2-3-4 strings together, with some force, the tuner registered momentarily, but I got zero response with just one string. Took the battery out again; checked it, put it back in. Messed a little with the door just to try to "settle all the mechanics of the parts" if that makes any sense. It finally started working -- tuner and signal were all fine and I played it at a low volume for a while -- still scratching my head over why such a renowned pickup system would perform so poorly. And hoped it was temporary. It wasn't.

So I'm 2 minutes or so into my first song at a very nice venue tonight and I start to hear tiny cut-out of the signal. Very intermittent at first, then they get more and more frequent and longer in duration. Finally had to STOP playing, apologize to the audience and check it out. Checked all connections and everything, but I knew in the back of my mind that it was the pickup. Messed with the door again and switched to a different (brand new) battery and it finally worked and, thank god, did last the rest of the night. Now I have another gig tomorrow after work, no time to work with/test this thing out. I'll use my Larrivee for tomorrow's gig, I'm sure, and will be in touch a.s.a.p. tomorrow with Ted at LAGuitar to see what he has to say.

On top of that, I found that when I boost my signal for lead guitar parts, the B and E strings are far quieter than the rest of the strings. Maybe I have to tweak the various controls on the pickup (A Fishman Prefix Plus T) more -- contour, brightness, etc. -- so I'm hoping that might help, but it doesn't seem to me that any of those would separately affect just two (or the other four) strings differently.

First blush? I love the guitar itself but I can't say that I'm at all impressed with this Fishman system so far. When you spend a good chunk of money on something like this, it should work better. And I've always been a Fishman fan.

ANY ADVICE? Any other odd experiences with the Fishman Prefix system???

Wish me luck; I'll certainly report back anything noteworthy... Thanks.

philo426 · #25 07-26-2012, 07:23 AM

My guitar has a Fishman pick up system and performs flawlessly.There is something wrong with it and should be returned for repair.Since you have a gig I guess the Lavarivee should be used because you can count on it.Sorry for the trouble!

GuitarPhan · #26 07-26-2012, 10:59 AM

Well, there's a little egg on my face, and some on Fishman's too, I'd think. The battery in this system should be pushed in all the way until a little plastic tab pops up behind it that keeps the battery pushed firmly against the terminals at the bottom. I didn't realize this until this morning when I opened the battery compartment up again. Other systems I have work fine when you simply put the battery in and close up the door/mechanism, but this one obviously won't work properly unless the battery is held in place by that tab. (Odd, too, that it "pretty much/kind of" worked even without the battery being all the way in.) Nowhere in Fishman's material does it mention anything about this tab function, which I think is a bit of an oversight on their part. But granted, if I'd had another cup of coffee or my biorhythms were peaking, I might have noticed this myself and averted the problem. Live and learn, I guess.

Ted @ LA Guitar Sales · #27 07-27-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarPhan

Live and learn I guess.

Aint that the truth.

short bald guy · #28 07-27-2012, 08:13 PM

I have not had to change my battery as yet....but I will know what to do now.
Sorry for your difficulty.... thanks for letting us know and thanks for owning up.
It speaks well of you.....

SpruceTop · #29 07-28-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarPhan

On top of that, I found that when I boost my signal for lead guitar parts, the B and E strings are far quieter than the rest of the strings. Maybe I have to tweak the various controls on the pickup (A Fishman Prefix Plus T) more -- contour, brightness, etc. -- so I'm hoping that might help, but it doesn't seem to me that any of those would separately affect just two (or the other four) strings differently.

I've experienced this before in RainSongs (and other guitars) as being caused by a non-flat saddle bottom.

The best way to remedy this is if you, or a friend, have access to a Bridgeport or knee-type milling machine. Put the saddle, bottom-up and leveled end-to-end, into the vise of a properly trammed machine and skim just enough off the bottom to have a uniform flat surface.

If you don't have access to a milling machine, put the saddle into a vise and level the saddle bottom, end-to-end, with an indicator. Leave only about .003" to .005" of saddle bottom above the tops of the vise jaws. Then using a file, file the saddle's bottom down to where you're just kissing the tops of the vise jaws. Usually taking .003" to .005" off the bottom of a saddle will give you a uniform flat surface free of any arching.

The easiest but least reliable way to accomplish this task is to sand the saddle's bottom on sand paper or on a belt sander but this can result in actually making the saddle's bottom worse by making it arched and also out of square.

Good Luck!

SpruceTop

GuitarPhan · #30 07-29-2012, 11:17 AM

Thanks, Spruce, for that info -- I don't think I'm anywhere near proficient enough with tools like that, and hey, it's a brand-new guitar, so I sure don't plan on doing any work on it. I've already talked to Rainsong and they assure me that they'll make it right. I played it again last night at full volume through the amp and the issue is definitely there. I'd say there's a 20-30% drop-off or so in the volume of the high E string, maybe a little less in the B string. But I really appreciate your post; it's nice to know that there may be a clearly defined problem -- and solution-- here. So I imagine I'll be getting it to the factory and let them correct it. Thanks again!