Is this a good pickup sound?

[J Patrick]

...a couple of thoughts from a long time K&K user...i've had a half dozen guitars outfitted with K&K's and have used at least that many preamps including a Red Eye...

...first off the soundclips sound decent...not objectionable to my ears but not "great" either...like most i think the first clip is more "natural" but i could see either tone working for someone depending on their playing situation..the second more midrange focused tone would definitely stand out more in an ensemble situation...i think the first clip would likely get lost in the mix although in a solo setting it would be my firstchoice

...the clips sound to me like the gain is up a bit too high...i'm hearing a slight whump with the strumming that might be dialed back with some adjustment of the gain structure..

...it has been my experience that K&K's generally get along better with smaller guitars...i'm not surprised that the first clip is from a GS Mini...i had excellent results with the K&K i put in a GS Mini HV...

...lastly...of all major guitar makers... i have found Gibsons to be the least receptive to K&K's...i've had several friends install them in their Gibsons only to rip them out after disappointing results...they always seem to sound thinner in Gibsons which i suspect may have something to do with their bridgeplates...

...

[Monsum]

Thank you guys for your useful comments. It's really valuable to get a second opinion for me. It confirms my feeling that the KK mini doesn't work well with my Gibson. My reasoning was simple, a great guitar will be a good match to a very good pickup but it turns out not to be that obvious.

I will remove the KK mini from the Gibson although I'm afraid if the guitar doesn't get damaged because the transducers were glued in not taped.

I need to find a better replacement of the mini. One candidate is LRBaggs M80, I like M1 which I have in another guitar. The advantage of M80 is it can work in a passive mode.
What else is there which works without a battery inside a guitar?

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Recognizing you just spent good money on the RedEye, which is a very good analog preamp, you may need to go the digital route if you want a better end product. To date, the Tonedexter is the "king of the hill" in this regard. Some have success with the Aura pedal and the K&K. I am using the Zoom AC-2 and the K&K. All of these are doing digital processing. Perhaps you can take your guitar to a local music store and demo the Fishman and Zoom pedals. Or, bite the bullet and get the Tonedexter. I'm not sure you can improve that second sample without substantial EQ or processing.

I won't go a Tonedexter route yet, I'll wait for more reviews. Besides to import it to Europe is expensive: $400 + $50 for shipping + at least another $50 for custom charges.

Originally Posted by rokdog49

If you are playing through a system, as always, I highly recommend the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI.
I can't figure why this product doesn't get more play on the AGF. I have five different pick up systems of all types in my five different guitars and I can make any one of them sound very natural through a PA with it.

I had the Fishman Platinum Pro preamp. It's indeed very good, some say that it sounds kind of 'plasticy', but I found it very effective.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

...the clips sound to me like the gain is up a bit too high...i'm hearing a slight whump with the strumming that might be dialed back with some adjustment of the gain structure

I noticed that too but the only thing that could cause it is my playing style. The KK mini was sent to the Red Eye, so this passive pickup could not overdrive the preamp. Then the Red Eye has a lot of headroom so nothing could happen inside of it. Then plugged into a mixer channel which had the preamp turned completely down. On my DAW the signal was very low, peaking at about -24dB. There was no processing going on, no compression or saturation, nothing, the recording was only normalized.

Originally Posted by J Patrick

lastly...of all major guitar makers... i have found Gibsons to be the least receptive to K&K's...i've had several friends install them in their Gibsons only to rip them out after disappointing results...they always seem to sound thinner in Gibsons which i suspect may have something to do with their bridgeplates

That is a very interesting fact, which really makes sense here, if I only knew it before...
Which pickups do you use and recommend to put in my Gibson?

[AeroUSA]

I’m confused. The first recording sounds great, I take it this is the expression system. There’s no way it’s a k and k.

From my experience the k and k always sounds like the second recording until you apply a drastic mid cut and treble boost and then it is very usable.

What is the pickup in the first recording?

[Tico]

Originally Posted by HHP

The second sample sounded more quacky to me while the first was a warmer and, to me, more natural sound.

+1 Exactly.

Listened through my RME BabyfacePro audio interface driving $200 AKG headphones.

I hate quack.
How has this perverted guitar tone become acceptable, let alone been welcome to destroy the beautiful tone of high end guitars?
IMO under saddle piezo quack is a pox on acoustic guitar music.
To me quack is so offensive and intrusive to guitar tone that it makes $5000 guitars and $50 guitars sound very similar ... as in horrible. Yuck!

Sure, undersaddle piezo PUs feedback less.
Sure, they're cheaper.
But those two upsides far from compensate for their downsides, Quack!
Music is all about sound, and good guitars are all about sounding good.

Again, just 100% opinion.
Clearly zillions love piezo quack, or are not bothered by it.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I’m confused. The first recording sounds great, I take it this is the expression system. There’s no way it’s a k and k.

What is the pickup in the first recording?

It is a K&K pure mini in a Taylor GS mini mohagony.

[varmonter]

So listening to both I obviously prefer the first recording.
so your signature says your Gs mini has an es2.
That's an active system with eq correct?
The second recording is your Gibson/KK
That's a passive system with no eq.
Both are going through a red eye?
I guess I would have to cry foul on your test.
As its an apples to oranges. The KK can probably
Sound much better with some judicious eq applied.
I have tried a bunch of stuff over the years.
Currently running a sunrise mag pup. Promising.
Before that an m80 in passive mode. It sounded good as well.
I don't think I'll ever be happy. With an amplified tone.
I think if it sounds just ok to me it will sound great to an audience.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by varmonter

So listening to both I obviously prefer the first recording.
so your signature says your Gs mini has an es2.
That's an active system with eq correct?
The second recording is your Gibson/KK
That's a passive system with no eq.
Both are going through a red eye?
I guess I would have to cry foul on your test.
As its an apples to oranges. The KK can probably
Sound much better with some judicious eq applied.

As stated the first clip is a K&K mini in a Taylor GS mini. My Taylor guitar has never had any other pickup installed.
I didn't know I have a forum signature, I can't see anything under my posts.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Monsum

As stated the first clip is a K&K mini in a Taylor GS mini. My Taylor guitar has never had any other pickup installed.

I didn't know I have a forum signature, I can't see anything under my posts.

Is it possible you’re guitar tech used different glue for the installations? It sounds as if there were more adhesive between the Gibson and K&K. More distant.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Monsum

As stated the first clip is a K&K mini in a Taylor GS mini. My Taylor guitar has never had any other pickup installed.
I didn't know I have a forum signature, I can't see anything under my posts.

That's interesting and it may start a rush of players buying Taylor GS Mini guitars and installing K&K Pure Mini systems in them so they too can sound darn good when playing out!

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Is it possible you’re guitar tech used different glue for the installations? It sounds as if there were more adhesive between the Gibson and K&K. More distant.

For the K&K in the Gibson superglue was used and for GS mini doubled sided tape as provided by K&K. That might cause most of the difference in sound.
On the other hand, the Taylor is very prone to feedback and the Gibson extremely resistant to it, it's easier for me to make LR Baggs M1 to feedback back than KK mini in my Gibson.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Monsum

For the K&K in the Gibson superglue was used and for GS mini doubled sided tape as provided by K&K. That might cause most of the difference in sound.

On the other hand, the Taylor is very prone to feedback and the Gibson extremely resistant to it, it's easier for me to make LR Baggs M1 to feedback back than KK mini in my Gibson.

Hmmm. I would have expected the opposite - the tape sounding worse.

[Monsum]

I know, it's so unpredictable, all we can do is keep experimenting

[James May]

Regarding the 1st clip: I have never heard a K&K sound as crisp before, but I've never tried it in that Taylor guitar either. On more careful listening, I would say that it is a bit bass boomy and also hollow in the middle. This is a Taylor trait, probably exacerbated by the small body size. It may not be as good for live reinforcement as it appears as a recorded file.

Regarding the 2nd clip: It sounds very typical of what my ears expect to hear from a K&K. A little darker than some, probably because it's a Gibson. Would probably work pretty well live with a bit of brightening.

In our experience, both would be dramatically improved with a ToneDexter.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by James May

Regarding the 1st clip: I have never heard a K&K sound as crisp before, but I've never tried it in that Taylor guitar either. On more careful listening, I would say that it is a bit bass boomy and also hollow in the middle. This is a Taylor trait, probably exacerbated by the small body size. It may not be as good for live reinforcement as it appears as a recorded file.

Regarding the 2nd clip: It sounds very typical of what my ears expect to hear from a K&K. A little darker than some, probably because it's a Gibson. Would probably work pretty well live with a bit of brightening.

In our experience, both would be dramatically improved with a ToneDexter.

Thanks James for your comment. Could you shed some light on when we can expected to have more European dealers of the tonedexter, I would be interested in an UK one.