Is the best way to lower the action to lower bridge, adjust the truss rod, or both?

[Tony Done]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

It's a Taylor GS Mini.

It has the patented Taylor NT neck joint.

Take it to an appointed Taylor tech and he will insert the correct shims at the neck joint to bring the action to your desired height, without any loss of string height at the bridge, which is an inevitable and undesirable result of sanding the saddle to get the action right.

I agree that the neck angle should be checked by a tech, but shimming is only an incremental solution, it isn't a continuous adjustment. Fine tuning might still involve neck relief and/or saddle height

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by Tony Done

I agree that the neck angle should be checked by a tech, but shimming is only an incremental solution, it isn't a continuous adjustment. Fine tuning might still involve neck relief and/or saddle height

Bob Taylor seems to agree.

Ask Bob: Adjusting the Action on an NT Neck

"...I’ve suggested that they tip their NT neck into the bridge and lower the saddle. So, go ahead and have the luthier do this for you and live happily ever after..."

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

It's a Taylor GS Mini.

It has the patented Taylor NT neck joint.

Take it to an appointed Taylor tech and he will insert the correct shims at the neck joint to bring the action to your desired height, without any loss of string height at the bridge, which is an inevitable and undesirable result of sanding the saddle to get the action right.

It’s the normal approach to adjusting a guitar. I didn’t realize Taylors have some special neck adjustment. We’re all just trying to be helpful here, same as you.

[murrmac123]

Sure, the saddle might require some fine adjustment, but given the OP's initial measurements, the saddle would require almost one tenth of an inch removed in order to bring it into spec, if the adjustment were done solely at the saddle.

That is far too much material to lose ... if the neck were shimmed properly by a competent tech, it would require only a very few thousandths removed in order to gain the desired action.

[Reasley]

There are multiple reasons why one might want to do DIY guitar work (like the OP), including one or more of the following:

1) Saving money (HUGE assumption: that you damage nothing in the process AND you finish the job to your satisfaction, and don't end up having to take it to a guitar tech anyway).

2) Saving time (your guitar might be gone for weeks or longer depending on demand at your tech's shop, and the distance to the nearest tech might be cumbersome).

3) The ability to easily experiment with different string brands, gauges, etc., etc.

4) The ability to easily experiment with alternate tunings and their effect on tone, playability, string buzzing, etc.

5) The immense satisfaction of doing your own work.

Given the above, IF you make the decision to do DIY stuff on your guitar, these would be my minimum criteria to do it:

1) Buy a good guitar repair guide. Dan Erlewine's is my preference, but there are many others. Dan is a genuinely "good guy" and it shows in his StewMac videos. He also has the childlike eagerness to continuously learn and excel at his craft that is one of my prerequisites in finding service providers. My guitar tech is like that, my physician is like that, and my favorite automotive repair shop is owned by someone like that.

2) Read it thoroughly AND read anything and everything that you can about your particular brand. YOu have a Taylor and they provide lots of good technical info AND they have a unique neck setting system, so that is very important to know well.

3) The next few things are the minimum tools that I would recommend. To begin, make sure that you have a nice, safe "bed" for your guitar to relax in. Have a family member get you a nice neck rest for Christmas like I recommended in a recent "Christmas gift" post, which is $30.

4) Get a good stringwinder and pin puller. Here is the best puller I've seen and it is just $6.50:

http://www.philadelphialuthiertools....n-puller-tool/

5) Buy a notched straight edge to measure relief (much better than a simple ruler across the frets which can be problematic (see Fret Rocker below). Here is my favorite which costs around $23. I recommend this one because StewMac's is around $90 -- cost prohibitive for most DIYers.

http://www.philadelphialuthiertools....-scale-length/

6) Buy a fret rocker. They are only $10 and should always be in your case when you're mobile. An incredible, and incredibly simple tool:

http://www.philadelphialuthiertools....igh-low-frets/

7) A string height gauge. $11.50.

http://www.philadelphialuthiertools....ar-setup-tool/

8) A feeler gauge. Available at any auto parts store.

9) A good tuner. Plenty of recommendations on this site about those. And, indeed, many or all of my suggestions and observations have probably been made in posts from years gone by. Forgive me for that, I am new to the list and, additionally, there are probably other things that can be added to this list. Indeed, I just thought of one of my favorite ones: buy a roll of the super-wide velcro tape. Make two of the male and two of the female pieces that are about 3" across. There are times that you want to get inside your soundhole between string replacements. Grasp the strings at the nut and ahead of the bridge with these, loosen up your strings, pop the bridge pins, and you have your strings aligned for reinstall and, importantly, they are not flopping all over the place.

[justonwo]

Get the relief straight before you make a decision. Can you measure the relief and tell us what it is? We’ll try to help from there.

[dneal]

I think many people would be surprised at how high of a saddle they can tolerate when the nut height is set correctly.

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by justonwo

Get the relief straight before you make a decision. Can you measure the relief and tell us what it is? We’ll try to help from there.

Yes, absolutely. But I am assuming that the OP doesn't have the tools needed and, if he tries to use a "regular" straight edge across the frets instead of a notched one, one has to assume perfect alignment because if even one is slightly high, it will throw the relief measurement off. If one fret is high in the first couple of frets or at the other end, then it will appear that there is excess clearance and he will try to "take it out" when the problem may be a high fret. Similarly, if a fret in the center is high, then he might conclude "not enough clearance" and go the other way with the truss rod. And, to clarify what I mean about frets being "high" or "low," I'm not referencing the frets "riding along withthe fretboard contour." Instead, I'm talking about a fret that has "popped up" in the fretboard, and it doesn't take much. Looking at the fretboard from the side, here is what I mean:


--------T------- where "T" is the fret and "------" is the fretboard. The diagram is exaggerated, of course, but you will likely not see it, but a fret rocker will identify it.

OP, when you return to this thread, please read my previous post about tools and understanding of the process through reading and inform us where you are in that process because trying to look at neck relief, adjusting truss rods, sanding saddles, and so on is not something that should be attempted without a tool-based grounding in the process. Do you have that?

[Martie]

Thanks for all the replies. I've only just woke up (in England) and can see it's been a busy night

I've got to go to work now but just to say that the only tools I have are a metal ruler and a piece of sandpaper!

I will have a proper look later. Thanks again.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

Short short answer: altering the saddle is the only way to adjust the action. The truss rod adjusts the relief, which is the curvature of the neck, and does not usually need adjustment. If you want to know more, follow Charles's link that explains everything you want to know about setting up a guitar.

Don't forget the action at the nut usually needs some attention also.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by Reasley

if he tries to use a "regular" straight edge across the frets instead of a notched one, one has to assume perfect alignment because if even one is slightly high, it will throw the relief measurement off.

You've lost me there.

The straight edge should be laid on the first fret and the body joint fret, and the relief measured at the center (6th fret on a 14 fret neck)

As long as the straight edge is making contact at these two points, and only at these two points, the relief can be accurately measured.

I don't get where the notched straightedge figures in the process ?

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by dneal

I think many people would be surprised at how high of a saddle they can tolerate when the nut height is set correctly.

^ - Truth!

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Martie

Thanks for all the replies. I've only just woke up (in England) and can see it's been a busy night

I've got to go to work now but just to say that the only tools I have are a metal ruler and a piece of sandpaper!

I will have a proper look later. Thanks again.

If you haven't already done so, be sure to try the lighter gauge strings on before you do anything else.

When I switched a Mini to lights, the reduced tension let the neck straighten out to the point that the high E began to buzz on the frets.

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

You've lost me there.

The straight edge should be laid on the first fret and the body joint fret, and the relief measured at the center (6th fret on a 14 fret neck)

As long as the straight edge is making contact at these two points, and only at these two points, the relief can be accurately measured.

I don't get where the notched straightedge figures in the process ?

A notched straightedge takes two potential important variables out of the process: a fret problem and a convex neck. Since none of the frets are touching the straight edge (because they are under each respective notch), you are now measuring ONLY the neck relief. It is more accurate, it is much easier to measure, and it is much easier to see. If you use a flashlight from the other side of the guitar, it will be very clear.

A picture will illustrate a notched straight edge's advantage much better, LOL, than I can describe it:

[justonwo]

I think maybe we’re going a little overboard. A string depressed at the first fret and the fret at the neck joint makes a fine straight edge. All he wants to do is a basic action adjustment.

OP, just to give us a basic idea, use a capo to fret the first fret. Then fret the fret at the neck joint (probably the 14th fret). Then look at the gap between the bottom of the low E and the top of the 7th fret. How big is it? If there is no gap, your fretboard is flat. If you can just slip a sheet of paper in there (try it), it has minimal relief. If you can slip a business card or heavy paper stick through there, it has medium relief. Any more than that and it’s probably too much relief.

But just give us an idea where you are. If the relief isn’t extreme, you probably do need to get the neck angle adjusted. murrmac is right that you would need about .100” take off the saddle, and that’s too much. So unless your relief is extreme that’s probably what you need to do.