My most indispensable plug-in for Recording Acoustic Guitar

[KevWind]

So for Doug and Steve and others with hands on experience with AA 2

In my situation of doing my (as live) type recording with my ribbons on guitar and my LDC on vocal, all recorded at once . And I believe am getting OK but not as good as it might be ...

Do you think AA2 would help ?

My understanding is (and wondering if my thinking sounds basically correct) I have two potential issues

#1 any time alignment differences between the two guitar ribbons themselves
#2 any time alignment differences between the guitar pair and the vocal mic

Now I realize I have bleed issues as well and that AA2 will not do much for that other than possibly get any potential phase issues between the gtr, pair and vocal corrected

Here is what I am getting currently
Here all the mics are in Figure 8 . The ribbons are rolled with the null side angled up towards my mouth and the null on the vocal mic angled down towards the guitar

NOTE I am not getting much vocal in the ribbons BUT I am still getting a fair amount of guitar in the vocal So I may switch my vocal mic back to cardioid and raising it up above my head and hanging vertically down (just for more distance )

Also I am aware that my moving left to right might cause an issue with the AA2 So I will have to work on not moving

[b1j]

Originally Posted by dcn

Hi everybody! This is Diogo (dcn) the guy in the lucky position to have Ken close by to record with.

Below is an example of a recording from that session w/ Ken, in which Doug tweaked the mix with Auto-Align 2. This is an original tune I wrote late last year.

Big thanks again to Ken and Doug for their generosity and expertise.

Diogo, I could listen to that final chord for days.

[dcn]

Thanks, b1j, I appreciate that : ) Just let it ring!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by KevWind

So for Doug and Steve and others with hands on experience with AA 2

In my situation of doing my (as live) type recording with my ribbons on guitar and my LDC on vocal, all recorded at once . And I believe am getting OK but not as good as it might be ...

Do you think AA2 would help ?

hard to say without trying it. A phase correlation meter will pretty much answer the question between the 2 N22s. Harder to say about the bleed between the vocal and guitar, and I'm not sure how well the plugin can deal with mics that have mostly different content (tho that's what it's dealing with for drums, so maybe...). If you want to send me your tracks, I'd be glad to make a pass and see what it does.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

hard to say without trying it. A phase correlation meter will pretty much answer the question between the 2 N22s. Harder to say about the bleed between the vocal and guitar, and I'm not sure how well the plugin can deal with mics that have mostly different content (tho that's what it's dealing with for drums, so maybe...). If you want to send me your tracks, I'd be glad to make a pass and see what it does.

Hey thanks I will do that Now as for the vocal track I do have the Supertone -Clear voice separator plugin on it, to help cut down on the bleed, but I can send that vocal track twice one with Clear one without
But I have never tried to send tracks so I will PM you for more info. so as not to distract this thread further

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by dcn

Hi everybody! This is Diogo (dcn) the guy in the lucky position to have Ken close by to record with.

Below is an example of a recording from that session w/ Ken, in which Doug tweaked the mix with Auto-Align 2. This is an original tune I wrote late last year.

Big thanks again to Ken and Doug for their generosity and expertise.

Would not think Auto-Align 2 would be helpful to use on a stereo recording of a solo guitar. I can see the use in some other situations.

[kellyb]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Would not think Auto-Align 2 would be helpful to use on a stereo recording of a solo guitar. I can see the use in some other situations.

I tend to agree, but I could see it coming in handy to fix phase issues recording guitar and vox with two mics.

It's interesting...there are definitely folks who admonish auto alignment of drums, pointing out that it "defeats the purpose" of using multiple mics.

It seems like the general consensus is that AA can be indispensable to pro mixers that have to rescue poorly recorded things. It certainly came in handy fixing a woofy snare that I recorded. In that case, flipping the phase helped originally, but created problematic resonance with overheads, suggesting that it had problems outside of of what 180 degrees difference can make. And I measured my overheads' distance to snare, so I'm a little dumfounded. Glad it helped though.

[Kenny B]

Originally Posted by kellyb

I tend to agree, but I could see it coming in handy to fix phase issues recording guitar and vox with two mics.

It's interesting...there are definitely folks who admonish auto alignment of drums, pointing out that it "defeats the purpose" of using multiple mics.

It seems like the general consensus is that AA can be indispensable to pro mixers that have to rescue poorly recorded things. It certainly came in handy fixing a woofy snare that I recorded. In that case, flipping the phase helped originally, but created problematic resonance with overheads, suggesting that it had problems outside of of what 180 degrees difference can make. And I measured my overheads' distance to snare, so I'm a little dumfounded. Glad it helped though.

So with the help of AA (which btw has now released a new version, 2.1) I find that even with supposedly setting up my mics perfectly, I still find the benefit of using this plug-in on solo acoustic guitar. It just helps the overall sound and especially noticed on harmonics or when you let a chord ring out... the sustain feels better and does not die off or become unbalanced.

I am able to add it before recording and it works on the fly to align the tracks without needing to run it separately, i.e., playing the tracks again with plug-in/real-time.

It can also be used on pre-recorded stereo tracks by selecting "Multi-Mono" from the pull down menu.

[Al Acuff]

Originally Posted by kellyb

I tend to agree, but I could see it coming in handy to fix phase issues recording guitar and vox with two mics.

Not really. If you align the vocal with the bleed then the guitar becomes more phasey and vice versa. This $99 dollar plugin comes in useful for solving phase issues because you can tweak either the lows or the highs which allows you––for example––to correct bass without exacerbating treble phase issues. Little Labs IBP Phase Alignment Tool

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Would not think Auto-Align 2 would be helpful to use on a stereo recording of a solo guitar.

If the guitar was recorded with two mics, unless you've taken the time to align each mic perfectly, Auto-Align can help quite a bit. The mics being even a little bit out of phase sucks some tone from the track.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Kenny B

So with the help of AA (which btw has now released a new version, 2.1) I find that even with supposedly setting up my mics perfectly, I still find the benefit of using this plug-in on solo acoustic guitar. It just helps the overall sound and especially noticed on harmonics or when you let a chord ring out... the sustain feels better and does not die off or become unbalanced.

I am able to add it before recording and it works on the fly to align the tracks without needing to run it separately, i.e., playing the tracks again with plug-in/real-time.

It can also be used on pre-recorded stereo tracks by selecting "Multi-Mono" from the pull down menu.

Always enjoy your excellent recordings Kenny B!

Is there any sonic benefits to the recording adding AA before ( plug in real time), versus afterwards? Or is it just that you hear better phase alignment while tracking so it lets you know the true sonic character that will be recorded?

Are you bussing out the Real Time AA corrected Track to a new separate input, thus creating a recorded tracking version?

[Kenny B]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

Always enjoy your excellent recordings Kenny B!

Is there any sonic benefits to the recording adding AA before ( plug in real time), versus afterwards? Or is it just that you hear better phase alignment while tracking so it lets you know the true sonic character that will be recorded?

Are you bussing out the Real Time AA corrected Track to a new separate input, thus creating a recorded tracking version?

Thanks AcousticDreams. I am planning or recording DCN this weekend so will have new recordings with his new Halland guitar soon.

Okay I tried to answer you questions; here is my reply:

From my perspective and work flow I either am #1 fixing stereo recordings done with mono L and Mono R tracks, or #2 recording new tracks with mono L and R..

In scenario #1, Sound Radix recommends putting the plug-in as the first available insert on the recorded tracks. So I do that, mono L and mono R instances of the plug-in.

Then I would play the track from beginning to end making sure to hit the “Align” button before hitting Play.

Auto Align will then start “listening” to the track and creating another file in the background with the corrections it will need to do. After you hit stop, then the tracks will align…. AA does its thing, both time and phase alignment. At this time, I will “lock” this two mono tracks and they will not be affected by anything else I might do in the project sequence. Very important to “lock” the tracks before moving on.

Working with a stereo track, you first have to select “Multi-Mono” from the drop down menu before AA can do its thing, else everything is the same.

Scenario #2: Moving forward I am now using AA while recording my tracks, however I am adding the plug-in (first instance of insert) to both my mono tracks, but before hitting Record, I am also “Play enabling” those two tracks and then hit the “‘Align” button in the popup window before starting to record live tracks.

It does no good to listen while recording because AA is working much the same way, making its “notes” in an outside file. Live listening just sounds like it would without the plug-in applied. However once I stop recording, the alignment takes place which is kinda cool since I don’t have to go back and replay the track with the plug-in on. It’s already done and sounds identical to if I had run the plug in after the fact.

Note that I am using Digital Performer (latest issue) as my DAW. If you are using Logic or something else, you might find a different formula or work flow will work best.

So if you download the demo of this from Sound Radix and start using, you might have questions and the people there are really good at answering any questions you might have for what you want to do. Also, there are other products our there that do similar things but I am not certain anything will do both Time and Phase alignment at the same time. I am very happy with the results I am getting so I'm not spending time looking at other products.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Kenny B

Thanks AcousticDreams. I am planning or recording DCN this weekend so will have new recordings with his new Halland guitar soon.

Okay I tried to answer you questions; here is my reply:

From my perspective and work flow I either am #1 fixing stereo recordings done with mono L and Mono R tracks, or #2 recording new tracks with mono L and R..

In scenario #1, Sound Radix recommends putting the plug-in as the first available insert on the recorded tracks. So I do that, mono L and mono R instances of the plug-in.

Then I would play the track from beginning to end making sure to hit the “Align” button before hitting Play.

Auto Align will then start “listening” to the track and creating another file in the background with the corrections it will need to do. After you hit stop, then the tracks will align…. AA does its thing, both time and phase alignment. At this time, I will “lock” this two mono tracks and they will not be affected by anything else I might do in the project sequence. Very important to “lock” the tracks before moving on.

Working with a stereo track, you first have to select “Multi-Mono” from the drop down menu before AA can do its thing, else everything is the same.

Scenario #2: Moving forward I am now using AA while recording my tracks, however I am adding the plug-in (first instance of insert) to both my mono tracks, but before hitting Record, I am also “Play enabling” those two tracks and then hit the “‘Align” button in the popup window before starting to record live tracks.

It does no good to listen while recording because AA is working much the same way, making its “notes” in an outside file. Live listening just sounds like it would without the plug-in applied. However once I stop recording, the alignment takes place which is kinda cool since I don’t have to go back and replay the track with the plug-in on. It’s already done and sounds identical to if I had run the plug in after the fact.

Note that I am using Digital Performer (latest issue) as my DAW. If you are using Logic or something else, you might find a different formula or work flow will work best.

So if you download the demo of this from Sound Radix and start using, you might have questions and the people there are really good at answering any questions you might have for what you want to do. Also, there are other products our there that do similar things but I am not certain anything will do both Time and Phase alignment at the same time. I am very happy with the results I am getting so I'm not spending time looking at other products.

Thanks so much Kenny B. for the detailed instructions. Very helpful and I truly appreciate the time you took to write it.

I actually already own AA. But have yet to use it as I have not recorded guitar in over a year now. Been perfecting my tunes, adjusting guitar tone/playing style & getting my recording room in order. I will be ready to start recording acoustic guitar again in about a month. In the meantime, I have been learning virtual instruments for background instrumentation against my acoustic guitar. So I haven't been totally dormant in the recording game. But no need to use AA on Virtual instruments( or at least I think not? )

I like you will also be using two mono tracts(L & R) to record acoustic guitar(Schoeps 21's). But will also experiment using a third mic using my Beesneez 67 as a center pan. Hmmm? I think I will buss out those two or three tracks to create a single stereo tract in which then my effects will be added.

By the way....I also purchased the Tone Traveler via your recommendation. I can not tell you how much this has opened up my Larrivee's even more. I was previously shopping for a new guitar. Now I am so pleased with the tone improvements that I no longer desire a new guitar(Plus I really can't afford one anyway). Big Believer to get the tone right before recording. And now I am getting more bass, more focus, more sweet trebles. So I am set.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

No, it won't adjust one side of a stereo track. I mostly use it myself when recording with more than 2 mics and have more channels. If needed, I can use iZotope RX, which has a similar feature that will handle a stereo track.

Just catching up on this thread, and wanted to correct my earlier post. As someone pointed out, you can put the plugin in "dual mono" mode, then set the left and right settings on 2 instances and use it on a stereo track.

I've never felt the need to do that on my own recordings - ideally, you set up the mics correctly to start with. But it's certainly a nice learning aid. If you just use a phase correlation meter when setting up mics, you can dial in the placement, but you're sort of guessing and moving the mics around to find the right spot. With this, the plugin can just tell you "you're off by 3.2 inches", which is kind of cool. But then I move the mic(s), and I don't need the plugin anymore.

[rick-slo]

For simple two mike stereo recordings of a guitar whatever mike placements sound best to my ears. You can play around post recording with some millisecond range channel delay (as I have done now and then) by ear. Some of the best dang sounding guitar recordings can have wild patterns on a correlation meter.