Building 12 string acoustic

[gtsolid]

hi everyone!
i'm new in the forum and i hope to find a lot of informations here!
i would to build a 12 string, could i follow this?
if you want the code: ISBN-13: 978-0811806404

[LouieAtienza]

I believe Cumpiano and Natelson do touch base a little bit on 12-strings, haven't read it in a long while though I have the copy. The techniques presented are very good especially if using mostly hand tools. Thry have however moved away from the pinned neck joint in the book to the now common use of barrel nuts in the tenon, which Cumpiano explains in his website.

[ruby50]

Depending on how you learn best, a book may or may not be best. I learn best when someone shows me something, then I learn about the book part of it after I have done it a couple of times. With that in mind, a video is my preferred method - and there are tons and tons pf videos on the inner webs. And there are several guitar building forums out there where folks post blow-by-blow sequences of their methods.

Good luck - it's a blast

Ed

[gtsolid]

So the website is more updated that the book?
What do you think about Durmast oak as wood?

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by gtsolid

So the website is more updated that the book?
What do you think about Durmast oak as wood?

Well the book was written in the late 70s, early 80s. Cumpiano I believe learned from Mike Gurian, who used the pinned mortise. Unless you want to make yout own tool or know a blacksmith, this may not be the easiest part of the build. I don't know if it's still there but Cumpiano had a "appendix" to his book on his site explaining the refinementsand changes to his techniques.

[redir]

I think the C&N book has appendixes on line as well. They don't use that old pinned joint anymore. It was a great joint for sure but what a PIA. My guess is most people who followed that book didn't use that joint. Sloans book has a 12-string chapter in it too and in fact what I went off of when I built one years ago. Basically it's just a beefed up 6-string bracing scheme.

C&N is pretty much the standard volume for anyone getting into this craft. With that and online resources you should be able to pull it off.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by redir

I think the C&N book has appendixes on line as well. They don't use that old pinned joint anymore. It was a great joint for sure but what a PIA. My guess is most people who followed that book didn't use that joint. Sloans book has a 12-string chapter in it too and in fact what I went off of when I built one years ago. Basically it's just a beefed up 6-string bracing scheme.

C&N is pretty much the standard volume for anyone getting into this craft. With that and online resources you should be able to pull it off.

It's funny, because after making a too flimsy a pin tool, and plugging and redrilling the pin hole on the tenon a few times, I gave up and epoxied the neck on... Yes I'm aware the appendices describe the newer barrel bolt method, but I never saw that at the time I bought the book. Oh well...

[redir]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

It's funny, because after making a too flimsy a pin tool, and plugging and redrilling the pin hole on the tenon a few times, I gave up and epoxied the neck on... Yes I'm aware the appendices describe the newer barrel bolt method, but I never saw that at the time I bought the book. Oh well...

I hear ya. There was no Internet to speak of when I bought that book so I never saw it either. I just decided on doing a dovetail, much easier.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by redir

I hear ya. There was no Internet to speak of when I bought that book so I never saw it either. I just decided on doing a dovetail, much easier.

That's good to know it wasn't just me! Threading and bending 1/4" rod to make a trussrod is one thing... making that pin tool was something else. I feel I missed out on learning something by giving up on it...

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by redir

. It was a great joint for sure

Now, redir, come on ... that joint was the worst idea in the whole history of luthiery...

[phavriluk]

Cumpiano's book was the first building book I bought, and the first I put up on the shelf. I never knew, because it was my first exposure to building, what advice of his was current and what was, shall we say, 'time honored'. Building truss rods comes to mind, and heaven only knows what else. I half expected advice as to how to use a knotted string to measure with. Lights went on when I spent a week with Dave Nichols at his shop building a guitar. Not much of what we did looked anything like Cumpiano's book.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

Cumpiano's book was the first building book I bought, and the first I put up on the shelf. I never knew, because it was my first exposure to building, what advice of his was current and what was, shall we say, 'time honored'. Building truss rods comes to mind, and heaven only knows what else. I half expected advice as to how to use a knotted string to measure with. Lights went on when I spent a week with Dave Nichols at his shop building a guitar. Not much of what we did looked anything like Cumpiano's book.

Aside from Cumpiano's book, I have Somogyi's... Aside from keeping tools sharp, the methodologies seem diametrically opposite!

[redir]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Now, redir, come on ... that joint was the worst idea in the whole history of luthiery...

You have a valid point

[mb propsom]

First of all, what is your woodworking experience? Also, will this be your first guitar, or have you built several previous to this 12 string project? As far as Durmast oak, I have a feeling not to many people on this forum have built with it. Until you mentioned it, I'd never heard of that particular oak. But, I assume it basically has the properties of other oaks, so it would probably be fine for a back and side wood.

[Truckjohn]

I love oak as a tone wood... It can make fantastic guitars.. I have built one oak guitar and am currently building another.

That said - I do not really recommend it for a first guitar - especially if you doing everything with hand tools...

For a first build - I would recommend Mahogany, cherry, birch, walnut, or soft maple. All these work beautifully with hand tools and finishing is fairly straight forward.

Oak is very porous... And the pores are cavernous and sometimes bottomless. This makes some significant challenges finishing...

Color wise... Natural finish oak is very light. It's a sandy tan color - sometimes with a slight greenish hue. It's much lighter than people expect it to be.... To me - it looks better under a darker stain. This adds complexity to an early build - which you may rather just simply finish natural.

Oak also doesn't have a particularly uniform texture for working by hand. It has very porous rings and very hard grain lines. This can cause trouble when trying to hand-plane plates to thickness....