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  #46  
Old 09-22-2017, 09:28 AM
mot mot is offline
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I mostly strum and sing at the moment, so I agree with FF's assessment too. The Lucky is marvelous for finger picking.
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PS If you don't want to invest in yourself, why should anyone else even bother to try?
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  #47  
Old 09-22-2017, 12:39 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
I can vouch for Dave's comment about the X20 too in my limited way. For a week, I had a Chimaera with 12 string / 6 string necks. I found that guitar to be quieter when fingerpicked than my single-necked guitars (both wood and CF) and I had to dig a bit harder to get the same volume out. I attributed that to the larger body cavity and sound board of the double-neck instrument.

The tone and playability were wonderful, and the slight lack of loudness has not stopped me from ordering a customized X20-12 string -- basically the upper half of the Chimaera. I will finger pick that one too, and strum it with a flat pick. My detailed report will be forthcoming when it gets here around early December.
As I understand it, the Chimaera is a thinner body than the X20, so you will likely get more volume acoustically out of the new incoming X20-12.

With the discussion here regarding sound/tone/volume, just thought I'd add: I am a strummer/picker/singer. Playing the X20 again this morning, I was surprised that anyone would find that quiet... but: perspective.

Yesterday, my cat was crowding me on the couch while I was playing - I learned something new: singing down into the soundhole on the X20 gives your voice a bit of reverb. I was holding the guitar quite upright, with the soundhole close to my chin... it is like being IN the guitar - love that sound!

(No, I don't normally play in that position... didn't want to disturb the cat!)
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  #48  
Old 09-22-2017, 12:53 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
As I understand it, the Chimaera is a thinner body than the X20, so you will likely get more volume acoustically out of the new incoming X20-12......

(No, I don't normally play in that position... didn't want to disturb the cat!)
A deeper body depth is entirely possible. I will find out in another three months, and compare it directly to my Taylor 354-LTD twelve string.

Around our house, a running joke is that you cannot disturb a comfortable cat -- because they will NEVER get comfortable again.
An old cartoon once said, "The kitties are happy. That's a very good start".
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  #49  
Old 09-22-2017, 12:59 PM
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Acousticado Acousticado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
I can vouch for Dave's comment about the X20 too in my limited way. For a week, I had a Chimaera with 12 string / 6 string necks. I found that guitar to be quieter when fingerpicked than my single-necked guitars (both wood and CF) and I had to dig a bit harder to get the same volume out. I attributed that to the larger body cavity and sound board of the double-neck instrument.

The tone and playability were wonderful, and the slight lack of loudness has not stopped me from ordering a customized X20-12 string -- basically the upper half of the Chimaera. I will finger pick that one too, and strum it with a flat pick. My detailed report will be forthcoming when it gets here around early December.
As a 99% barefinger strummer/picker, I concur that the Chimaera is slightly quieter. I haven't plugged in with it yet, but I believe this guitar will sound incredible when properly dialled-in through an amp. As described in my recent NGD Chimaera, this iteration is my third with the newest one being a cocobolo top woody. Although I only have the latest one in-hand, I don't think the wood top changes the volume output one way or the other, nor do aI think that the wood changes the tone to any discernible extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
As I understand it, the Chimaera is a thinner body than the X20, so you will likely get more volume acoustically out of the new incoming X20-12.
Yes, the Chimaera body is wider and a fair bit shallower than the X20, so it makes sense that the X20 will be louder even though I don't own nor have tried an X20. Plus, the unique combo soundhole/port design of the X20 reportedly adds volume to the player.
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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Last edited by Acousticado; 09-22-2017 at 01:16 PM.
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  #50  
Old 09-22-2017, 01:31 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by email4eric View Post
I follow this sub-forum regularly though I've not yet delved-into the CF world...yet. Barriers are availability to try instruments and information.

In all of that time, I've not found a more singularly useful post than this one from Ted.

That was an amazingly succinct analysis clearly derived from your immense closeness and knowledge with this subset of acoustic guitars!

Kudos, Ted. I've always greatly appreciated your posts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Ditto that, Eric. Ted should keep this verbiage from post #21 on his web site, since it is such a useful introduction / synopsis of the current CF world.
Much appreciated, Eric, and thanks as well, Earl.

Regarding the lack of volume on the x20 compared to Rainsong, in my experience, Rainsongs are by far the most responsive, which can translate to more volume, depending on your style. In fact the only other CF guitar that is as responsive is the Journey RT660, and not surprisingly these guitars are the lightest as well. Good news is that unlike with wood guitars, added response does not mean loosing any headroom, so you get the best of both worlds.
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  #51  
Old 09-22-2017, 01:41 PM
Frettingflyer Frettingflyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post

With the discussion here regarding sound/tone/volume, just thought I'd add: I am a strummer/picker/singer. Playing the X20 again this morning, I was surprised that anyone would find that quiet... but: perspective.
Hi Jim,
I didn't mean to exclude flatpicking either, the Emerald really shines there as well. My point is that for my style, I have a hard time getting the X20 top to really vibrate enough without the pick, while my other guitars are a bit easier in that way. If I pick or strum it sounds like a whole differn't instrument to me and I am really surprised by it's range, in a good way.
It sounded like the OP may have a similar style so I thought I would throw it out there.
Of course my X20, while really good looking looks nothing like yours!
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  #52  
Old 09-29-2017, 07:23 AM
Jim in TC Jim in TC is offline
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[QUOTE=HodgdonExtreme;5482039]So the Rainsong concert hybrid looks interesting, but it seems they're all (or mostly) 12 fret guitars?

The concert hybrids are indeed all 12 fret. Once I played a 12 fret I found I never wanted to go back, not because it was difficult to go back and forth - it wasn't, particularly, for me - but because I found it so much more comfortable to play. This is, no doubt, a highly personal thing but the 'resurgence' of 12 fret models in the Taylor line and some of the CF brands suggests that many others are finding the same thing. What I like is the 'intimacy' of the shorter scale and a sort of slinkyness that makes bending easier. Bridge placement farther back on the body seems to give a richness to tone (at least on wood guitars - same on CF, I don't know). I ended up selling off a nice 000 Martin and a completely acceptable travel Taylor GS mini for, of all things, the little CA Cargo, a more 'comfortable' guitar than I have ever played. Looking now at Rainsong CH-OM for a little more volume...
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2017, 09:59 AM
HodgdonExtreme HodgdonExtreme is offline
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So I bought a Rainsong Concert dreadnought, my GAS review here:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...11#post5498711
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