Refretting a Rainsong w/ stainless steel frets...

[joeguam]

I'm almost at the point where I'm going to need to refret my Rainsong Shorty - it's taken me through 265+ gigs. I've refretted a couple of ebony fretboards, but never a carbon fiber.

Can anyone share some tips, tricks, lessons learned or heads-up points as I take this on?

Thanks in advance.

[Earl49]

My Rainsong WS-1000 is now 17 and has been played quite a lot, but the frets still look nearly new -- and I have a fairly heavy left hand touch. You must have some SERIOUS play time logged to need a re-fret. Your best bet is to call or email Dave at Rainsong (always helpful) and get advice straight from the manufacturer. I vaguely recall Dave saying it was not really any different than an ebony finger board.

I've never worked with SS frets personally, but I understand that they tend to be hard on tooling, which is why they last longer than nickel silver frets, so many luthiers and factories don't like them. You might get more intelligent responses posting in the Building & Repairs room too.

[jonfields45]

This has been discussed in the "Build & Repair" section of the AGF. I think it was Ned Milburn who last commented on a RainSong he re-fretted. I recall there was some aspect of the job that was a bit different than usual. You might be able to find his post on the subject. He is busy with some activities outside of his guitar business and is not as frequent a contributor to the AGF of late. You can hunt him down here:

http://www.handcraftedguitars.ca/

Let us know what you learn after you are done. I am thinking stainless frets are in the future, at some point, for my RainSongs too (though not to be installed by me).

[Earl49]

Another option is Jescar EVO gold fret wire, which is harder and more long-lasting than normal nickel silver fret wire, and doesn't chew up tools as badly. It also looks cool with that gold-ish tone.

If I ever re-fret anything it will either be SS or EVO. I won't go to all that effort and use anything less than the most durable material available. I have re-fretted a guitar myself, but it had a flat fret board which simplified things a great deal.

[jonfields45]

As a pointless aside... Stewart MacDonald is now carrying stainless frets. Unlike LMI's web page that starts with tool advice (cheap tools and throw them out often, or really really good tools, but sort of be warned), Stew Mac gets right into the sales pitch:

StewMac Stainless Steel Fretwire
Our most popular fretwire sizes, now in stainless
Everyone loves stainless for its durability and longevity, plus it's easy to work with.

Get more miles between refrets
Stainless steel frets are slow to wear or develop grooves, so you get smooth string bends for years longer. Some players hear a slightly brighter tone with stainless.

Easier fret jobs
Unlike traditional fretwire, you don't need to "overbend" stainless steel wire. Curve it to your fretboard radius, and it stays put. The frets fit their slots without popping up, so less fret leveling is required.

[joeguam]

Thanks for the heads up on the tooling for SS frets. I've researched a bit on the difference between nickel and SS, so I'll be using a dremmel with a diamond cutter to cut the frets, and then file it from there.

I asked a Dave from Rainsong this same question and all he said was: "it shouldn't be any different from refretting a wood guitar". I find this a little tough to accept because (as I learned from a Frank Ford) heat is used to soften the wood fibers to allow the fret barbs in/out of the slot. Adding heat to a CF fretboard won't do a thing.

Eventually I'll give it a shot and figure it going slowly and carefully...I was just wondering if I could get a heads-up from others who have taken on the job and learned from it.

[Christopher Cozad]

Originally Posted by joeguam

...I asked a Dave from Rainsong this same question and all he said was: "it shouldn't be any different from refretting a wood guitar". I find this a little tough to accept because (as I learned from a Frank Ford) heat is used to soften the wood fibers to allow the fret barbs in/out of the slot. Adding heat to a CF fretboard won't do a thing...

I just completed a refret on my old WS1000. Actually, it is the glue that the heat "softens". I use an electric woodburning pen, fitted with a flat blade. It only takes a few seconds of direct contact with each fret before a squeeze of my fret pliers confirms that the fret is loose and ready to be extracted. The frets will then lift right out with no resistance. I opted to modify the fretboard radius (from RainSong's 20" to a milder 16"), while all the frets were off. After sanding it, I polished it up to 3000 grit paper.

Note that the necks ship with wide fretwires. I desired to install narrower frets (StewMac #148), and that required using a fret tang crimping tool to add a wavy effect to the tang so the narrower fret would fit in the wider slots. After crimping, I ran a bead of black-tinted super glue down one side of the fret tang prior to setting the frets. Once they were installed, leveled and dressed my RainSong felt like a new guitar!

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

I just completed a refret on my old WS1000. Actually, it is the glue that the heat "softens". I use an electric woodburning pen, fitted with a flat blade. It only takes a few seconds of direct contact with each fret before a squeeze of my fret pliers confirms that the fret is loose and ready to be extracted. The frets will then lift right out with no resistance. I opted to modify the fretboard radius (from RainSong's 20" to a milder 16"), while all the frets were off. After sanding it, I polished it up to 3000 grit paper.

Note that the necks ship with wide fretwires. I desired to install narrower frets (StewMac #148), and that required using a fret tang crimping tool to add a wavy effect to the tang so the narrower fret would fit in the wider slots. After crimping, I ran a bead of black-tinted super glue down one side of the fret tang prior to setting the frets. Once they were installed, leveled and dressed my RainSong felt like a new guitar!

That sounds like a killer mod- I would love to see pics and wish I could play your guitar to check that out! Is your RainSong an N2?

[Christopher Cozad]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

That sounds like a killer mod- I would love to see pics and wish I could play your guitar to check that out! Is your RainSong an N2?

Drop by anytime, you're always welcome! ;~}

I hope to have a page up, later today, with photos of the process. I'll post a link to it in this thread. This is the same guitar in which I had replaced the original LR Baggs Element with Bagg's Anthem StagePro. The link to that retrofit is here.

My RainSong has the original neck w/o a truss rod ("Vintage" Carbon Fiber? LOL). I got the chance to test/prove/put to rest the deflection theory on that neck. I sanded it dead flat, strung it up fretless, and it remained dead flat (And I just realized I did not photograph that before/after measurement- rats!). So I sanded in a minimal relief, fretted the guitar, and it stayed put. Of course, if someone wanted a thousandth or two change in either direction, it would involve a bit wore work to achieve a new relief than simply tightening or loosening a truss rod, but it could be accomplished. ;~}

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

I just completed a refret on my old WS1000. Actually, it is the glue that the heat "softens". I use an electric woodburning pen, fitted with a flat blade. It only takes a few seconds of direct contact with each fret before a squeeze of my fret pliers confirms that the fret is loose and ready to be extracted. The frets will then lift right out with no resistance. I opted to modify the fretboard radius (from RainSong's 20" to a milder 16"), while all the frets were off. After sanding it, I polished it up to 3000 grit paper.

Note that the necks ship with wide fretwires. I desired to install narrower frets (StewMac #148), and that required using a fret tang crimping tool to add a wavy effect to the tang so the narrower fret would fit in the wider slots. After crimping, I ran a bead of black-tinted super glue down one side of the fret tang prior to setting the frets. Once they were installed, leveled and dressed my RainSong felt like a new guitar!

Great info, Christopher.



Joe, I am impressed that you were able to wear out the frets in such a short time. I have clients who have been playing their Rainsong for well over a decade with no need for a refret.

I'm curious why you are thinking a full refret, how many of your frets need replacing?

[Christopher Cozad]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

That sounds like a killer mod- I would love to see pics...

Sean, here is the link to my article with pictures and a video clip (clipped video?) of how it sounded a couple of hours later.

RainSong Refret

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

Sean, here is the link to my article with pictures and a video clip (clipped video?) of how it sounded a couple of hours later.

RainSong Refret

That's some very clean and professional work. I'm guessing you have done this stuff a lot or you would never touch your RainSong like this. I'm especially impressed with you reducing the radius- That would be one of my biggest complaints about the neck regardless of N1 or N2. 20" is unusually flat.

Thanks for sharing!

[Purfle Haze]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

Sean, here is the link to my article with pictures and a video clip (clipped video?) of how it sounded a couple of hours later.

RainSong Refret

Christopher, thanks for the article. Very instructive!

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

I'm curious why you are thinking a full refret, how many of your frets need replacing?

Sorry for the confusion Ted, never said anything about a full refret. I've got divots in the first 7 frets and it's starting to cause some problems, though not every time on each fret yet. I play between 6-10 shows a week now (min. 2 hrs, most 3-4 hrs) so it's going to need some work real soon.

I've decided that if I'm going to do a partial refret, I want to just move to stainless steel. Also, if I'm gonna setup my shop to refret the lower 7 frets, I might as well just pull all of them and install SS so I don't have to deal with leveling/crowning in the future.

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

Sean, here is the link to my article with pictures and a video clip (clipped video?) of how it sounded a couple of hours later.



RainSong Refret

Thanks Chris for this article. I'm the OP and this is exactly the info I was looking to find when I posted this thread. Cheers!