Explaining the recurring odd bars in "Angel From Montgomery"

[martingitdave]

I like the idea of being faithful to the original. Good luck with the teaching. For me, it's all folk music. I don't try to explain it.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I like the idea of being faithful to the original.

In this particular case, I don't think very many people have heard it.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

In this particular case, I don't think very many people have heard it.

True. Bonnie Raitt probably was responsible for making it so popular. At least on the rock stations, growing up, they never played the Prine version from 71.

[Gordon Currie]

There's a Bonnie Raitt concert video where John Prine came on to do this as a duet with Bonnie.

There's a point where he seems to get out of sync with the rest of the band (including Bonnie). I always though it was just a senior moment, but maybe it was the odd bar?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

There's a Bonnie Raitt concert video where John Prine came on to do this as a duet with Bonnie.

There's a point where he seems to get out of sync with the rest of the band (including Bonnie). I always though it was just a senior moment, but maybe it was the odd bar?

Yes that was the Farm Aid performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfF5W2-cjZg

Her first verse was 4/4 all the way - and he seems to be strumming along in sync - but then he sang his second verse his way, a beat short. So he's then a beat earlier than the others. So the chorus is out of sync. That's why Kris Kristofferson rushes on to sing the chorus with Prine to try to get it back on track. (Prine sticks with his short bar in the next verse, but then she pulls it back to the straight 4/4, and by then he has cottoned on to how they're all feeling it, and goes with them.)
Clearly - you can tell from all the grinning - it was an informal jam with no rehearsal!

In this video, they seem to have rehearsed it, or at least come to an understanding -

- they are together all the way, and in 4/4 all the way.

But it does look occasionally as if they are checking with each other as they play - especially as he looks towards her at 3:23 to make sure they both sing the next line together!

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I guess I wasn't being clear -- I'm not looking for the reason why he did it. I'm trying to find a better way to teach these guys to hear it and play it. They both read, so I can make a chart, but I'm lazy and was looking for a shortcut. :-)

Some things in music can't be explained. As a "trained" musician, I know first hand that one must make a small leap into the world of understanding and accepting this reality. Probably your players aren't quite there yet.

PS: Remember many times these little rhythmic quirks aren't necessarily "how it GOES," but simply "how it HAPPENED to go" when tape was rolling for the first time. Grains of salt appropriate...

[Cypress Knee]

A lot of bluegrass songs are "crooked" meaning they have an extra beat somewhere. Clinch Mountain Backstep, Down the Road, and Hot Corn Cold Corn come to mind immediately.

[Jeffreykip]

That’s very interesting- I am definitely among John Prine fans who who most often listen to others playing his songs. Re your dilemma, if I were trying to teach it I wouldn’t explain, Id just have them listen to this version and play along at home before your next practice. It’ll take some listening to get it into one’s head to get the old way out and a new one in. I’d also do the “big eyeballs and chin bob” thing you do to a partner while playing for that final bar so you are all in it together.
Re the songwriting, I find it really interesting how we don’t exactly hear little aberrations in the meter while passively listening but it subconsciously makes the sound appealing to our ear. There’s a rhythmic change at the end of each phrase in Dylan’s Shelter from the Storm which is similar and really challenging for me to do, and I am just playing alone. It makes me want to try it in my own songwriting.