NGD (Eastman AR810ce) + Amp Suggestions?

[TheIntermediate]

Hello, all! First post on the Archtop forum here. Picked up a very nice Eastman AR810ce at Soundpure in Durham NC on Friday. Beautiful guitar with a very lovely acoustic tone.

This guitar will be played fingerstyle and at home 90% of the time. No plans to gig it but will use it to play and home and possibly record with it. I currently own a Fishman loudbox mini and a Fender Blues Jr III. I'm able to dial in a pretty good tone with the BJ but am eager to hear any suggestions for Amps that might be better suited to my purpose.

Again, I'll be playing fingerstyle at home for fun and recording. Looking for a good clean tone with nothing more but perhaps a little reverb. Any amps in the less than $500 range I should check out? Thanks in advance!

[TheIntermediate]

[Steve DeRosa]

Sweet - that "classic" finish was always one of my faves...

As far as amps are concerned, you're on the right track with the Blues Junior - a tube amp with 12" speaker(s) is the classic jazz setup (Everett Hull refused to put anything smaller than a 12" in his amps back when he ran Ampeg) - but I gather you're looking for a more traditional jazz tone than you're getting right now. Speaking from my own experience that translates into full lows/mids, smooth treble, and maximum available headroom - and there are several ways to achieve this:

1] Buy a dedicated "jazz" amp: what you want here is ASAP - as simple as possible - so think old-school and skip the modeling, multi-channel capability, and any onboard effects other than reverb (and possibly tremolo) in favor of as much clean power as your dollars will buy; that said, I wouldn't necessarily rule out a good analog solid-state combo - SS is about the best way I know to get lots of power for minimum outlay, and they have enough of a following in the jazz world that they have their own network of "boutique" builders (Henriksen, JazzKat, Evans). A Peavey Special Chorus, Carvin SX200/300, or NOS Fender Frontman 212R will give you 100W/2X12" tone for $300-350 - one-fourth the price of a Twin Reverb RI - and if you're OK buying used, look for an older pre-headbanger Randall RG/RB 2-channel combo; FYI they were designed/voiced to compete feature-for-feature with the silverface tube Fender combos (and comparably priced back in the day), and since there's virtually no demand they've become a very well-kept secret in the vintage amp market. I've seen solidly good-to-excellent examples selling in the $150-200 range, chump change for what essentially amounts to a transistor Twin/Super Reverb with more (120-180W) power (FYI the rare 4X10" has gotten some recent under-the-radar collector interest - if you see one, grab it), and if you're thinking "just another Roland JC-120 wannabe" forget it - a good Randall blows the JC out of the water in terms of both tone and power...

2] Buy a "mod platform": a Bugera V22 1X12" combo - 22W/15W switchable, all-tube, OD/digital 'verb (IMO one of the best built-in digi-verbs on the market, bar none) - will set you back $300-325 on coupon day at GC/Sam Ash, and for ~$175 in low-tech DIY mods you can have a tonal clone of the old Ampeg Gemini II/B-12XT "key club" NYC studio amps of the mid-60's, with enough headroom and output to comfortably hang with a Super/Pro Reverb (PM me for the details of you decide to go this route). If you still need more clean power the big-brother V55 (55W/25W) goes for about $100 more; similarly modded, you'll never need a Twin - or a Marshall, if you ever feel like rocking out and loosening some plaster ...

3] Mod your BJ: probably the least expensive route but you'll have to go counter to the prevailing line of thought with these amps, as you'll be losing its "low-volume rock amp" capabilities in the bargain. I'd start with a good set of tubes - the highest headroom rating available for the power tubes, and matched triodes in all of the preamp tubes (smoothes out the tone to my ears); here's a package that'll work in your amp:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-...remium-Package

You'll also need a bias job - TMK the BJ isn't cathode-bias so plug-and-play is not an option - and you'll need to tell the tech that you'll be using it as a jazz amp so he/she can set it up to run a little "cooler" in terms of current draw. Finally, you'll need to be looking at a more efficient speaker - in practical terms, every 3dB increase in speaker efficiency is equivalent to a doubling of output power - so think of it as free watts (or additional clean headroom) without the need to go to a bigger amp; you'll also need a speaker with mellower. less aggressive mids/highs - in a word, forget Celestion (or one of its many clones) and stay with traditional American voicing. I'm partial to Eminence - IMO they provide the greatest return per dollar spent - and their Patriot Series is broad/deep enough that you should have no problem finding your signature tone...

Good luck...

[Archtop Guy]

That little Fishman Loudbox behind the guitar should work fine... try it! Don't be afraid to twist those knobs.

[TheIntermediate]

Steve - thank you for taking the time to post that incredibly informative reply. Lots to consider there.

Archtop Guy - I will be sure to play with the tone stack to try and dial in the tone. Glad to hear that the Loudbox will be useful for this. I intend to have some fun playing with both amps for sure!

[Archtop Guy]

Originally Posted by TheIntermediate

Archtop Guy - I will be sure to play with the tone stack to try and dial in the tone. Glad to hear that the Loudbox will be useful for this. I intend to have some fun playing with both amps for sure!

I use my Fishman Artist sometimes for practice on my floating PU archtops. I really like the EQ. You can cut the bass a bit, dial out that body resonant note around 200 Hz using the notch filter, and boost the mids a bit. I really like the 750Hz center of the mid control, which is right around the high G on the high E string, so it smooths out the fundamental tone to about as high as us jazz guys need. The treble control is too high to do much, but you can dial down the tweeter level above about 3.5 kHz.

Many jazz guys are going for a tone with a flat response across the full range of the guitars fundamentals, that is, from around 80 Hz to around 800 Hz. We don't want or need lots of high harmonics, but we also don't want any bass boost, as it just reduces our volume before onset of feedback. The tough thing about many Fender amps is that they boost both the bass and the treble when the controls are straight up. On your Fender you can experiment with setting bass at zero and treble quite low, like two or something... you'll be surprised...

[kayakman]

You will always get the best info from all members here.....

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Sweet - that "classic" finish was always one of my faves...

As far as amps are concerned, you're on the right track with the Blues Junior - a tube amp with 12" speaker(s) is the classic jazz setup (Everett Hull refused to put anything smaller than a 12" in his amps back when he ran Ampeg) - but I gather you're looking for a more traditional jazz tone than you're getting right now. Speaking from my own experience that translates into full lows/mids, smooth treble, and maximum available headroom - and there are several ways to achieve this:

1] Buy a dedicated "jazz" amp: what you want here is ASAP - as simple as possible - so think old-school and skip the modeling, multi-channel capability, and any onboard effects other than reverb (and possibly tremolo) in favor of as much clean power as your dollars will buy; that said, I wouldn't necessarily rule out a good analog solid-state combo - SS is about the best way I know to get lots of power for minimum outlay, and they have enough of a following in the jazz world that they have their own network of "boutique" builders (Henriksen, JazzKat, Evans). A Peavey Special Chorus, Carvin SX200/300, or NOS Fender Frontman 212R will give you 100W/2X12" tone for $300-350 - one-fourth the price of a Twin Reverb RI - and if you're OK buying used, look for an older pre-headbanger Randall RG/RB 2-channel combo; FYI they were designed/voiced to compete feature-for-feature with the silverface tube Fender combos (and comparably priced back in the day), and since there's virtually no demand they've become a very well-kept secret in the vintage amp market. I've seen solidly good-to-excellent examples selling in the $150-200 range, chump change for what essentially amounts to a transistor Twin/Super Reverb with more (120-180W) power (FYI the rare 4X10" has gotten some recent under-the-radar collector interest - if you see one, grab it), and if you're thinking "just another Roland JC-120 wannabe" forget it - a good Randall blows the JC out of the water in terms of both tone and power...

2] Buy a "mod platform": a Bugera V22 1X12" combo - 22W/15W switchable, all-tube, OD/digital 'verb (IMO one of the best built-in digi-verbs on the market, bar none) - will set you back $300-325 on coupon day at GC/Sam Ash, and for ~$175 in low-tech DIY mods you can have a tonal clone of the old Ampeg Gemini II/B-12XT "key club" NYC studio amps of the mid-60's, with enough headroom and output to comfortably hang with a Super/Pro Reverb (PM me for the details of you decide to go this route). If you still need more clean power the big-brother V55 (55W/25W) goes for about $100 more; similarly modded, you'll never need a Twin - or a Marshall, if you ever feel like rocking out and loosening some plaster ...

3] Mod your BJ: probably the least expensive route but you'll have to go counter to the prevailing line of thought with these amps, as you'll be losing its "low-volume rock amp" capabilities in the bargain. I'd start with a good set of tubes - the highest headroom rating available for the power tubes, and matched triodes in all of the preamp tubes (smoothes out the tone to my ears); here's a package that'll work in your amp:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-...remium-Package

You'll also need a bias job - TMK the BJ isn't cathode-bias so plug-and-play is not an option - and you'll need to tell the tech that you'll be using it as a jazz amp so he/she can set it up to run a little "cooler" in terms of current draw. Finally, you'll need to be looking at a more efficient speaker - in practical terms, every 3dB increase in speaker efficiency is equivalent to a doubling of output power - so think of it as free watts (or additional clean headroom) without the need to go to a bigger amp; you'll also need a speaker with mellower. less aggressive mids/highs - in a word, forget Celestion (or one of its many clones) and stay with traditional American voicing. I'm partial to Eminence - IMO they provide the greatest return per dollar spent - and their Patriot Series is broad/deep enough that you should have no problem finding your signature tone...

Good luck...

Wow, Steve!

What an awesome post! I have read it three times just to get a handle on all the information you've provided! How cool!

I also own an Eastman AR810CE like the OP. I have been using mine in my studio, running into a PODXT using the tube preamp and then out to my Carver amp and 15" TOA PA speakers. All EQ straight up and a little reverb from an old Ensoniq DP4 unit. It sounds pretty good!

I have a Fender Blues Deville 4x10. The Eastman sounds okay through that, but I have found I really am enjoying more of a hi-fi sound.

- Glenn

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

...I also own an Eastman AR810CE like the OP. I have been using mine in my studio, running into a PODXT using the tube preamp and then out to my Carver amp and 15" TOA PA speakers...

Not this Carver, by any chance:

http://bobcarvercorp.com/silverseven700.html

Sorry he's not building an updated TFM for the less well-heeled among us...

Marshall - we don't need no stinkin' Marshall...

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Not this Carver, by any chance:

http://bobcarvercorp.com/silverseven700.html

Sorry he's not building an updated TFM for the less well-heeled among us...

Marshall - we don't need no stinkin' Marshall...

Hi Steve,

No, the Carver amp I have is a solid state amp. That is quite a pile of tubes there!

- Glenn

[good_hillbilly]

Originally Posted by TheIntermediate

That's amazing how similar that looks to my new Yunzhi, which is apparently on the way. Your pickguard's a little snazzier but they are almost identical. When it gets here I have to figure out how to electrify it. Anyhow, it's 100% clear to me where they got the basic design!

[Daddyo]

I have the same guitar AR810CE. Only difference is changed the pick-up to a Benedetto. Small difference. I didn't like the sound of any of my tube amps - too much mid-range. So I went with a Fishman Loudbox Artist. It does a nice job of reproducing the acoustic sound of this guitar.