To memorize finger board or not..that is the question

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by mc1

... therefore one must prioritize.

Exactly!


Do you have time to "know it all" and not get discouraged in trying to do so and then end up quitting guitar.
For most people playing guitar is a hobby or serious avocation at best. The key is keeping it fun and interesting
and that means some some quick results in being able to play some real music.

[andyi5]

Originally Posted by jcmccorm

First post here, be gentle

So are there some agreed-upon "best methods" for learning the notes on the fretboard?

I've been giving this some thought lately, having recently started playing with some other guys. I'm practicing more now and am thinking about some kind of regimen for practice. Spending a few minutes each time on learning the fretboard seems like a noble goal.

Cary

Must admit I've always been a bit negligent about learning this stuff, though recently I'm making an effort. Although some people have more aptitude than others for theory, I think there are ways to assimilate the information more quickly. I guess it's a bit like moving to a new city and finding your way round - you'd start by knowing a few of the main landmarks and build up your knowledge from there. Regarding the fingerboard, those landmarks could be those frets without too many sharps or flats - open EADGBE; 5th fret ADGCEA; 7th fret BEADF#B; 10th fret DGCFAD.

It's also helpful to memorise the thirds of a Cmaj scale (both ascending and descending CEGBDFA/ADFBGEC - no sharps or flats in this key). You can locate triads and modes from this in different places on the fingerboard. Knowing these thirds is essential as they are the building blocks of chords, and if you can quickly knock out CEG in a few places on the fretboard starting with the C on each string you're definitely starting to find your way round. A natural extension of this could be to take a 2-5-1 pattern in C.... you'd have Dmin (D F A C) to G7 (G B D F) to Cmajor (C E G B). Incidently, you may also recognise something here I guess we all learnt at school... E G B D F; F A C E - the basic notes on the stave for sheet music, and these are all the notes in the C scale set out in third intervals.

Once you start getting really comfortable with this simple key you've already covered a lot of ground, and you could apply a similar approach to some of the other simple keys without many flats or sharps in them, say Fmaj then Gmaj.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by jcmccorm

Thanks for posting what the books are.

I've found them online and read most of the reviews. They seem to be comprehensive and take a lot of dedication but worth it.

Cary

IMO, you don't need a book (although I don't doubt they might help). The principles are pretty simple.

1. The formula for the natural notes: ABCDEFG. Every pair of notes is 2 frets apart, except BC and EF which are just 1 fret apart.
|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|

2. Your open strings are EADGBE.

Just given those 2 bits of information, you can work out any note on any string on any fret.

Naturally that's a slow process unless you combine other bits of info:

3. Remember that if you can just work out where (say) all the E notes are, then you know that a D will be 2 frets below any of them, and an F 1 fret above any of them; and a G 3 frets above; etc. So you don't need to learn the positions of all 7 notes separately.

4. Look out for octave patterns on the neck. EG, mark out where all the E notes are (same pitch on different strings, as well as positions of different octaves). Or where all the A or G notes are. You'll notice the same relationships across strings.
The main problem on guitar is that the G and B strings are tuned a 3rd apart while all other neighbouring pairs are a 4th apart. What that means is that patterns across the bottom 4 strings (EADG) get disturbed (by 1 fret) as they cross to the B string. That's just a small irritation to get used to.

5. The familiar open chord shapes C G D A E can be used in movable versions, to help learn other interval patterns, and to help remember positions. Look up the "CAGED" system online.

[Greg_B]

So are there some agreed-upon "best methods" for learning the notes on the fretboard?

Wow, not really.

One good resource (among many) is here.

I particularly like Ted's comment on the page "Developing Fingerboard Sense"

The fingerboard is a Knowable thing ("Yeah, I know it makes no sense"). Seriously, it is. It will reveal itself to you bit by bit if you do your part in the relationship. All the knowledge, all the beauty is sitting there waiting for anyone willing to meet it half way. While it's true that the more subtle treasures are generally available only to the very serious (and/or curious), the basic, essential knowledge can become friendly to you (and you to it) in a pretty short period of time.

[815C]

Here's the basic approach I use with my students. Use the chromatic approach to be able to figure out every note on the fretboard, then pick one note at a time and show where it is on each string. I go over the method on this YouTube. Its my first shot at using Final Cut Express and I have some learning to do in regards to resolution/clarity. I'll probably redo this vid when I figure that out, but for now it will show you the general approach I use.

HOW TO LEARN THE NOTES ON THE NECK OF THE GUITAR

Here is the accompanying material to the video...

[Boone]

Here's my method. Since we all are so used to memorizing numbers and codes and passwords, you can probably memorize this in a day:

252 532 Big Pick Little Pick 423

252 (from string 2 to string 5, 2 frets apart)
532 (from string 5 to 3, 2 frets apart)
BP (Big pick shape, from 3 to 1/6, 3 frets apart)
LP (Little pick shape, from 1/6 to 4, 2 frets apart)
423 (from 4 to 2, 3 frets apart)

Using this you can find all the instances of any note.
Here's what it looks like for G:

[byrd]

It's been a week or two since anyone's chimed in on this thread, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents anyway. It's been years since I've played on a regular basis, and I've only been back to playing for just shy of 3 months now. As I've been getting back into playing, I've been trying to work on some basic theory (I had ZERO knowledge previously). It seemed that learning the notes on the neck would quickly become fairly useful.

Here's what I did:
1) I began by memorizing the positions of the notes in the key of C on the E string.
2) After gaining a little knowledge of intervals (yup, that's how little I knew before. ), I memorized the Perfect 4ths of the notes in C (A/D, B/E, C/F, D/G, E/A, F/A#, G/C). That way if I know a note one string, I immediately know the note on the next string as well (of course the B string is a half step off).
3) Then I learned the octave patterns that Boone mentioned above. Combining all this allowed me to find any note on the entire fretboard, albeit very slowly.

Recently, and this is the main point of my post, I discovered a small Android App that has been a tremendous help in speeding up my note recognition skill. RR Guitar Fretboard Trainer is a GREAT little app that helps to quiz you on the fretboard. A couple minutes here and there, have really helped me improve quickly. It's well worth the 2 bucks. The only down side is that it only has a couple preconfigured "game" profiles. Adding new ones is easy though. I Added a separate one for each individual string. It's not a very fancy app, but I would HIGHLY recommend it to anyone interested in memorizing the fretboard.

There is also an interval trainer, but so far I have only used the Lite (free) version. RR Guitar Interval Trainer LT.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Boone

Here's my method. Since we all are so used to memorizing numbers and codes and passwords, you can probably memorize this in a day:

252 532 Big Pick Little Pick 423

252 (from string 2 to string 5, 2 frets apart)
532 (from string 5 to 3, 2 frets apart)
BP (Big pick shape, from 3 to 1/6, 3 frets apart)
LP (Little pick shape, from 1/6 to 4, 2 frets apart)
423 (from 4 to 2, 3 frets apart)

Using this you can find all the instances of any note.
Here's what it looks like for G:

If it works for you, great, but that seems to be a lot to remember, and most of it is just cutesy pattern stuff.

I don't even teach "Every Good Boy Does Fine" when teaching students to read. E G B D F. If you have to remember the mnemonic first, there's a gap...some things are just worth memorizing.

That said, the guitar is a visual instrument, so I teach the CAGED octave shapes. Very simple, and helps relate root notes to scale positions and chord shapes...

[byrd]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

If it works for you, great, but that seems to be a lot to remember, and most of it is just cutesy pattern stuff.

I don't even teach "Every Good Boy Does Fine" when teaching students to read. E G B D F. If you have to remember the mnemonic first, there's a gap...some things are just worth memorizing.

That said, the guitar is a visual instrument, so I teach the CAGED octave shapes. Very simple, and helps relate root notes to scale positions and chord shapes...

...But isn't that "cutesy pattern stuff" simply the CAGED octave shapes? I don't think I could keep track of all the 252, 532, etc, either but doesn't it all essentially boil down to the same thing?

And as far as mnemonics go, (I'm not a teacher, but I've been a student! ), I've always felt that they are used as a learning technique, well... because they work. Sure, initially there's an gap, but after a while the memorization is ingrained into long term memory and the mnemonic is no longer needed. Oh, and I always preferred "Eat A Donkey, Get Big Ears". I know you were referring to the clef though and not guitar strings.

[mr. beaumont]

Exactly. But in the case of something like this, I think the shapes themselves are visual enough...I don't want to get into another step to remember with the numbers and the "big pick, little pick" business.

To me, mneumonics work best for complicated things, or when they stand in for more difficult to remember words (like "Kings Play Chess On Friday, Generally Speaking)

The music staff requires you know a few very basic things--that the musical alphabet is A through G, that the treble clef's lowest line is E, and that things continue in alphabetical order. The words "Every, Good, etc." are just standing in for letters, which are already in order...this is where that unecessary extra step comes in...I can't tell you how many times I've recieved a student who learned that way, and I ask them what a note is, and I can hear them say quietly "uh...every good boy DOES...uh...D."

In this case, it makes things more complex than necessary.

I do like mneumonics for musical things that seem to have a more arbitrary order, as in "I don't pee like my aunt Louise" or "Battle Ends, And Down Goes Charles' Father." (Or "Father Charles goes down and ends battle")

[byrd]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I do like mneumonics for musical things that seem to have a more arbitrary order, as in "I don't pee like my aunt Louise" or "Battle Ends, And Down Goes Charles' Father." (Or "Father Charles goes down and ends battle")

Makes sense. Thanks for the added input.

I will say, that I've been learning "Battle Ends..." and "Father Charles..." recently, and keep thinking to myself that it will sure be nice when I don't have to mutter that to myself anymore! It's a bit cumbersome.

I've never heard the "I Don't Pee Like..." one before. LOL I made one up for that myself... it's "I Don't Particularly Like Memorizing A Lot".

[stanron]

I do like mneumonics for musical things that seem to have a more arbitrary order, as in "I don't pee like my aunt Louise" or "Battle Ends, And Down Goes Charles' Father." (Or "Father Charles goes down and ends battle")

I'm not trying to start an argument here and I do agree with the main point you make but B E A D G C F is a series of 4th intervals, and F C G D A E B is a series of fifths. In that sense they are in order, but how did aunt Louise get involved?

[mr. beaumont]

I think if you already know how to find fifths and what they are it makes a heck of a lot more sense not to use the mneumonic.

As for Aunt Louise, lets just she she has a different "mode" of doing things...

[stanron]

Of course.

[jwing]

Zzzzzzz...huh? Oh yeah, my opinion about the value of memorizing the fretboard zzzzzzzzzzzz.

I can play 10 hours every day for the rest of my life and still not learn all the tunes I would love to play. So I guess I don't have time to learn something as non-musical as the names of frets.

The way I see it, music is made of three primary components: rhythm, melody, harmony. Rhythm has nothing to do with the fretboard.

Melody is intervals. Intervals have direction (up, down) and distance (small, long, zero). Harmony is based on intervals from the melody.

The interval distance choice can be simplified by choosing scale intervals. So learn some scales. Understand that on a guitar scales are patterns that can be easily moved up and down the neck. Choose the right key based on the singer's voice or the other instruments, and play. Really, why would you need to know the names of the notes? They sound the same no matter what you call them.