Need preamp for Fishman mini

[gfsark]

I have K&K mini pickups on the guitar (SCGC), and the sound through the Fishman is quite lovely. However, the bass is boomy even with the tone control on the amp turned way down.

Experimenting with my Bose T1 preamp, I was able to get a much more balanced tone. But it seems like overkill when I just want to plug in and play. So is there a small not too expensive preamp that would improve tone balance, be easier to use than the T1 (which requires separate power cable) and not too expensive?

Thanks.

[6L6]

Your Fishman Mini (like most acoustic amps) is designed to not need a preamp. In most cases use of a preamp with an acoustic guitar going into an acoustic amp will hurt the tone.

Preamps can be of help, however, if you're playing into a PA.

I'd consider getting a BOSS GE-7 EQ and see if you can't dial in the tone you're looking for.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by 6L6

Your Fishman Mini (like most acoustic amps) is designed to not need a preamp. In most cases use of a preamp with an acoustic guitar going into an acoustic amp will hurt the tone.

My mileage has varied from yours 6L6. I purchased an Fishman SA220. I was not too happy with the tone I was getting. So, I added a RedEye preamp and have been smiling ever since. http://www.fire-eye.com/#home

You can finds tons of posts on this forum regarding the success of RedEye and K&K signal chains.

Steve

[Neon Soul]

No need for a preamp, that will just push the input of the amp harder.

An EQ will do. Boss GE-7 if you want simple and affordable, Empress Para EQ for a bit more tweakability at a higher price.

[Paultergeist]

I must offer a differing opinion......

I have found that -- when using an instrument with no "on-board" pre-amp (as I assume would be the case with most user-installed K&K systems) -- the FIRST think that the signal traveling along the cable "wants" to see is a pre-amp. An acoustic amplifier such as the Fishman Loudbox will work just fine in this regard, providing that a reasonably short cable (10-12') is used and that the cable is plugged straight into the amplifier.

In my case however, this has usually not been the situation. Coming out of my guitar, I typically run into several "stomp boxes" (tuner, chorus, delay, reverb) and THEN go into the amplifier or PA. In such a case, I find that I am asking too much of the rather weak signal coming off of that pickup if there is no pre-amplification until the signal reaches the amp. I find that using a pre-
amp as the FIRST item in the signal chain (en route to the amp) really helps both the strength and tone of the signal, more so with longer cables and multiple effects.

Remember also, many acoustic/electric guitars have on-board (I.e. "barn-door") electronics panels ON the guitar, so these instruments always have a pre-amp as item number one in the signal chain. An external pre-amp is doing the same thing, only at a greater distance.

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by 6L6

Your Fishman Mini (like most acoustic amps) is designed to not need a preamp. In most cases use of a preamp with an acoustic guitar going into an acoustic amp will hurt the tone. for.

Hmmmmm.......but what about the many acoustic guitars which ALREADY have a pre-amp installed as part of the OEM pick-up system? I think most acoustic amps are designed to be pretty flexible in this regard, playing reasonably *nice* with both active and passive pick-up systems.

[gfsark]

What I've learned and generally experienced is that the tone controls on an amp or guitar are fairly primitive. Now I like the tone on the Fishman (and I've used it a lot as designed), but I can't really dial the balance to my satisfaction. I also experience a marked improvement in sound quality by first running the signal through my Bose T1 preamp then into aux input on the Fishman.

My conclusion is that while a separate preamp is not needed for an acoustic guitar amp as 6L6 states, it does seem that a more sophisticated preamp improves the tone in a way that I like. It makes sense to me that a $500 preamp would do a bit better in shaping the sound than a $300 amp's tone controls.

[lkingston]

I've been using a little Danelectro "Fish & Chips" 7 band graphic EQ for exactly this and it works wonderfully well. $30 and I prefer it to the much more expensive Boss version that I also have.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

[midwinter]

I just added a Fire Eye Red Eye to my rig because of the boominess of my JJB rig (like a K&K) in my guitar. Rolled the treble all the way up and that mostly tamed it. Added an Empress ParaEQ in the loop and it sounds killer.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

I must offer a differing opinion......

I have found that -- when using an instrument with no "on-board" pre-amp (as I assume would be the case with most user-installed K&K systems) -- the FIRST think that the signal traveling along the cable "wants" to see is a pre-amp. An acoustic amplifier such as the Fishman Loudbox will work just fine in this regard, providing that a reasonably short cable (10-12') is used and that the cable is plugged straight into the amplifier.

In my case however, this has usually not been the situation. Coming out of my guitar, I typically run into several "stomp boxes" (tuner, chorus, delay, reverb) and THEN go into the amplifier or PA. In such a case, I find that I am asking too much of the rather weak signal coming off of that pickup if there is no pre-amplification until the signal reaches the amp. I find that using a pre-
amp as the FIRST item in the signal chain (en route to the amp) really helps both the strength and tone of the signal, more so with longer cables and multiple effects.

Remember also, many acoustic/electric guitars have on-board (I.e. "barn-door") electronics panels ON the guitar, so these instruments always have a pre-amp as item number one in the signal chain. An external pre-amp is doing the same thing, only at a greater distance.

The effects unit I use is a +4 dBu professional unit. The signal it expects is, not surprisingly, a +4 dBu line level signal, which has a nominal operating level of 1.23 volts. The passive pickups I use generate millivolts, usually in the 25 to 100 millivolt range. It would be signal chain suicide to connect those passive pickups directly to my effects unit.

Instead, I use a +4 dBu preamp to boost and impedance buffer the signal as a first step in my signal chain. Hygienically, it is best to do that as close to the passive pickups as possible (no later than the endpin jack on the guitar).

[gfsark]

Well after studying all your answers, I've pretty much convinced myself to use what I have, and get better at using it. Two drawbacks to the Bose Tonematch: 1) requires a power supply 2) designed to be mounted on the L1 tower system, or with adaptor on a microphone stand, not a stomp pedal.

Advantages to the T1:
1) cost. I already own it.
2) has equilizer with low, med, high
3) has parametric equilizer
4) tons of different types of dynamic processing, reverb, compressor, noise gate, de-esser etc...
5) scenes/memory so you can store different audio setting mixes, and recall as needed.
6) and the preamp is really fine.

I've never taken the time to master this preamp even though I've used it a lot with the Bose tower, and been delighted with the sound. But the Fishman gets a lot more use, because I normally don't play to that many people, and its just so darn convenient. So got to spend more time learning to use what I have. Thanks to all.

[animal eater]

I am definitely in favor of the pre amp. I go from guitar which has LR Baggs M-80 into a Radial Tonebone PZ pre and then into either amp and or PA and often both. No question that I get way more control by using the Pre amp which enables me to EQ signal first.

[RockerDuck]

I think the T1 is overkill. I have a Fishman mini and switch guitars too. The mini has effects already and the mini has mic preamps built in. Just one eq pedal does a lot; multi-band increase and decrease to sculpt your tone, and a boost to bring up the overall volume.
If you play at home, just use the T1.

[Irish Pennant]

I've run my K&K PWM pickups through a K&K Pure Preamp belt clip model, PADI, Zoom A3, Genz Benz Shendoah 85 amp, Fishman Loudbox Mini, directly into a Zed 10fx and 60-14 fx mixers. The best sound was going through the Fishman Loudbox Mini. The belt clip Preamp from K&K gave me enough tone control to balance out the signal, it's small compact and easy to take out to open mics. The PADI worked well, no complaints. I just don't remember what the tone was like going directly into the mixers. The Zoom A3 works very well.

My favorite routing for the K&K is Zoom A3 > Fishman Loudbox Mini > Zed 60-14 FX mixer with the vocal mic bypassing the Loudbox Mini.

I like my Zoom A3 in the signal chain regardless of what it plugs into or what plugs into it.


I have no problems with eq'ing my K&K pickup with the Fishman Loudbox Mini. Just an after thought, have you checked the installation of your pickups, their placement makes a difference in sound.

[Marty C]

GFSark,

What wood is your guitar made of and what is the shape? Not sure it makes a difference. Just curious. I have a Martin dread, spruce top with mahogany sides. It is a boomy guitar and with my k & k, it needs some taming. I have used multiple ones, but stick with the k & k belt clip preamp. Maybe I just like matching the brand.

I don't like my guitar direct to the loudbox mini either. But I have heard smaller body (000 size) with k & k mini, spruce top and rosewood back and sides sound great.

I also think the loudbox is best with the UST pickups, maybe since that is what Fishman makes? Don't know, but I am in sales and marketing and I make sure any auxiliary equipment I have goes best with my main products.

I heard so many people like this unit and prefer the guitar going direct and my guitar alone just does not sound good. I think maybe diffferent guitars may require some eq prior. Don't know the science behind it all, but my ears still work good enough to know what I like to hear. And if it sounds good to me, I will play with confidence.

Just curious about the wood and shape. Maybe not a difference with UST, but maybe a big difference with the sound board transducers like K & K.

Anybody got any thoughts on that?