Solo acoustic live sound, what do you guys use?

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

Un-amplified sound is a mistake I won't make again.

One aspect of this discussion that has caught my attention is the need for the performer to have a visible image appropriate to the venue. I remember as a power rock musician that I felt we needed to have a mountain of sound equipment even if we didn't use it, just to give the audience the proper visual image of what we were trying to do. If you're going to project an image of power, you don't show up with a small combo amp, even if it's loud enough. Similarly, a busker would be expected by the audience to have some kind of battery-powered amp lest he be considered just another guy hanging around a street corner.

An issue arises, however, when a performer shows up with more amplification equipment than the venue would appear to need. For example, when I enter a fairly quiet restaurant and see a guy setting up PA speakers on poles, I'm inclined to leave. The image that I'm going to get blown out of room remains even if he keeps the volume under control. I think the idea is that if you're going to provide background music, you ought to stay visually in the background as well. But, if you're performing as the focal point for an audience, you need to have a set up that says "look at me". Yet a third issue is to project an image to whoever hired you that you're seriously working on their behalf.

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by AX17609

One aspect of this discussion that has caught my attention is the need for the performer to have a visible image appropriate to the venue.....

I agree 100%. I think that the amplification plays a part in the visual aspect of the musical performance package associated with a gig. Especially with respect to amplified acoustic guitar and small venues, rolling in with too much equipment or visually-off-putting equipment can really impact (negatively) the ambiance.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

I'm a busker and I've been on both sides of this debate in my recent years. I used to believe, with all my heart, that unamplified music was pure and that it absolutely sounded best.

Bad experiences opened my eyes to a new way of thinking and they were not fun lessons to learn. My first introduction to the fact that unamplified singing was not only considered noise by many people came when I started gathering complaints from residents and businesses in the small PA. town I'd just moved to and, from that, came a backlash against me that I was ill equipped to defend against. There was a growing coalition of people who'd decided that 'I sucked' and they wanted rid of me (This even though I was a celebrated busker in NYC's Central Park for years and, besides being in a $250 coffee table book on the subject and having played for and with many famous musicians).

Adding this, even though the tourists in the town, without question, loved what I was doing. To the point that the cops, everytime they came to shut me down, sheepishly (and to their dismay) always had to apologize to the crowd I'd gathered, a crowd who were less than pleased with having their good times shut down without reason.

Long story short, I went on an odyssey of trying different battery powered amplifiers, trying to find something that would actually reproduce excellent sound (And by my posts here you'll know that I am more than just a little interested in the subject).

I did find that sound, and I have won in that, not only have my earnings been greatly enhanced, the perception of my talents is almost completely positive by my listeners now, albeit back in NYC.

My defense was/is to be audibly heard and that just wasn't possible without amplification. I'm awake and aware now. It is critically important to put your best foot forward always.

Un-amplified sound is a mistake I won't make again.

Thanks for sharing your experience. My personal experience is that you CAN be heard unamplified. It's a learning process like anything else. You can present yourself effectively without relying on mere volume. I've done it for decades and still learn new ways to communicate via musical performance with just a good instrument and good arrangements of interesting material.

Reaching people on a personal level entails an acute sensitivity to the surroundings as well as being able to read people and engage them in sharing.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with volume but rather projection from a "centered-ness". Watch a mime, juggler or magician work.

Reach out from a quiet spot and invite people in. You'll find takers...

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

This has nothing whatsoever to do with volume but rather projection from a "centered-ness". Watch a mime, juggler or magician work.

Reach out from a quiet spot and invite people in. You'll find takers...

My juggling experience finally allows me to contribute!

So, yes and no. We have done shows with no amplification but we usually do them with amplification. For us, we can't project enough for the crowds to hear all of the patter when we aren't facing the crowd. (Remember, jugglers are facing each other when passing, not the crowd.) So, by the end of the day, we were generally hoarse without a pa. Of course, it could be argued that our voices weren't trained but there is a reason pa's were invented. There's only so far a voice will travel.

Ironically, when we did get a pa, it took us a while to learn to not shout into the mics. Ha!

For singing, I find I can be far more expressive when I'm not belting out at top volume. So, while I agree it can be done, based on my style and my experience, no amplification actually takes away from my performance and limits the size of the crowds I can entertain.

We all get to choose what works for us!

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

Thanks for sharing your experience. My personal experience is that you CAN be heard unamplified. It's a learning process like anything else. You can present yourself effectively without relying on mere volume. I've done it for decades and still learn new ways to communicate via musical performance with just a good instrument and good arrangements of interesting material.

Reaching people on a personal level entails an acute sensitivity to the surroundings as well as being able to read people and engage them in sharing.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with volume but rather projection from a "centered-ness". Watch a mime, juggler or magician work.

Reach out from a quiet spot and invite people in. You'll find takers...

I understand what you're saying and it's great advice for almost any aspect of performance and for any performer. There's a kind of intimacy between you and your audience that's impossible to truly define when you give people the absolute choice of whether to engage with your performance or not, and they then choose to give their attention.

I don't want to discount any of the very important things you're saying but I do need to add that it's very hard to know what's going on outside your performance space when you're immersed in that dance.

There are people who're self absorbed and jealous enough to do nefarious things that can cause real harm.

It's possible that I dove right into a small town's dynamics without having any understanding of the politics of the place. I still don't understand the closed mindedness of the Pocono's.

That said, when I explored what exactly it was about my singing that was central to the complaints, I was told that it was what some were calling a 'chirp'. People could only hear, (from farther away than 20 or 30 ft), the louder high end transients of the lyrics I was singing and nothing else.

I did decide that what I was doing could easily be perceived as noise, mostly because I had no idea that what I was performing sounded randomly there and then completely gone, outside of where I had an audience.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

I understand what you're saying and it's great advice for almost any aspect of performance and for any performer. There's a kind of intimacy between you and your audience that's impossible to truly define when you give people the absolute choice of whether to engage with your performance or not, and they then choose to give their attention.

Eloquently expressed. Thank you.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Thank the Lord I never had to play in a Key West bar.

scott memmer

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Thank the Lord I never had to play in a Key West bar.

scott memmer

As a juggler, I've been kicked out of Mallory square for street performing. Does that count?

[Northward]

After a few years living very urban and close to a small city park, I sympatize fully with residents not wanting the same repertoar every 45minutes coming through their kitchen window.. In fact these street buskers use to drive me crazyin the summers with their Pan flutes and cheesy backup tracks. And I won't go into the agony of the Rumanians and their ill sounding accordions.. I may sound harsh, but I categorize most street buskers as noise, in an allready noisy city. I know it's hard work, but this is my opinion.

I have since moved to a smaller, much calmer city :-)

[canerod]

So, as is often the case this thread has gotten way off track.

To get back to the OP's original query: Although I have access to a good selection of quality live PA and studio gear, I decided I wanted a light/easy, cheap and simple rig for occasional (usually low paying) solo work in small venues. I ended up with an Alto Trouper ($160 with 20% coupon), a dbx goRack ($29.95), a Blue encore 100 for vocal and a Blue encore 100i for guitar. Done!

I already had the mics. I grabbed two of each when Blue dropped pricing on these and started offering their two for one deals. I've had them for a year or so and they have kicked my 58s and 57s out of rotation. I have a K&K on my main guitar and an Orchid DI I can play thru if I choose, but I'll take the sound of a mic'ed guitar over plugged in any day.

I set the goRack eq on the "de-mud" setting which notches out the 150-350 kHz range. I adjust the high and low eq on the individual channels on the Trouper. I also use the anti feedback feature , as well as very minimal compression (set around 15) on the goRack.

Very good sounding, simple and inexpensive system in my opinion!

[cheer tunes]

do you have a sense of what kind of gear (PA) is available at the venue(s) you are going to play? if there is no PA and it is a small/med venue I would suggest a fishman loudbox artist. It has two channels so you can plug a simple shure vocal mic into it as well as your guitar on that other channel. If the venue does have a PA you can still use the loudbox as your on stage monitor and run an XLR out of the loudbox right into the PA. That has worked well for me.

[gfsark]

I remember a gathering where the singer refused to use the mic, and then proceeded to amaze us with his incredible operatic voice that hundreds of people could easily hear. For those with less powerful (and probably less trained) voices, mics are the rule. Same for guitars. A guitarist with a light touch isn't going to get heard even in a small venue. Thus the banjo was invented. But who wants to listen to that in a bar?

[Rumblefish]

Originally Posted by Northward

After a few years living very urban and close to a small city park, I sympatize fully with residents not wanting the same repertoar every 45minutes coming through their kitchen window.. In fact these street buskers use to drive me crazyin the summers with their Pan flutes and cheesy backup tracks. And I won't go into the agony of the Rumanians and their ill sounding accordions.. I may sound harsh, but I categorize most street buskers as noise, in an allready noisy city. I know it's hard work, but this is my opinion.

I have since moved to a smaller, much calmer city :-)

I'm not in any way trying to harsh on you but I've always been befuddled by people who move into busy downtown areas and complain about the noise. When I lived in Sarasota there was a constant war between residents and music venues downtown. Everyone wants to be near the action but then they don't want to hear or see it. Move to the country or the burbs or a more residential neighborhood if you want it quiet was my go to response, which it sounds like you did. It's like moving next to a bus depot and complaining about the transients.

[Rumblefish]

Originally Posted by AX17609

One aspect of this discussion that has caught my attention is the need for the performer to have a visible image appropriate to the venue. I remember as a power rock musician that I felt we needed to have a mountain of sound equipment even if we didn't use it, just to give the audience the proper visual image of what we were trying to do. If you're going to project an image of power, you don't show up with a small combo amp, even if it's loud enough. Similarly, a busker would be expected by the audience to have some kind of battery-powered amp lest he be considered just another guy hanging around a street corner.

An issue arises, however, when a performer shows up with more amplification equipment than the venue would appear to need. For example, when I enter a fairly quiet restaurant and see a guy setting up PA speakers on poles, I'm inclined to leave. The image that I'm going to get blown out of room remains even if he keeps the volume under control. I think the idea is that if you're going to provide background music, you ought to stay visually in the background as well. But, if you're performing as the focal point for an audience, you need to have a set up that says "look at me". Yet a third issue is to project an image to whoever hired you that you're seriously working on their behalf.

We had a show in a local venue many moons ago and we had a solo acoustic act opening. The place was very loud and crowded and when the guy started everyone kept talking and pretty much ignored him. He stopped playing and stood about 15 feet back from the mic and started singing accapella. You could barely hear the guy but people slowly stopped talking. The quieter the room got the closer he got to the mic until he had the rapt attention of every single person in the room. He then picked up his guitar and continued his set.
It was extremely powerful and I'll always remember it.

[Northward]

Originally Posted by Rumblefish

I'm not in any way trying to harsh on you but I've always been befuddled by people who move into busy downtown areas and complain about the noise. When I lived in Sarasota there was a constant war between residents and music venues downtown. Everyone wants to be near the action but then they don't want to hear or see it. Move to the country or the burbs or a more residential neighborhood if you want it quiet was my go to response, which it sounds like you did. It's like moving next to a bus depot and complaining about the transients.

You are of course entitled to your opinion on the matter.

But I find this a strange argument. To assume that all residents in an urban environment are happy about having a high sound level around them, when noise is in fact pollution by definition..(!) So by your logic, big city residents must love pollution or get out..

I dare say most musicians share a common love for piece and quiet. A nice blank canvas to fill..


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