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  #1  
Old 06-17-2015, 10:47 PM
babigila babigila is offline
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Default Leo Kottke's Stealing difficulty level?

Hi all, I've been tempted to attempt one of Kottke's piece, Stealing.
When I was uninitiated in fingerpicking, this type of songs seems pretty simple( "just chords and fingerstyle").. but now that I've been playing some delta blues and John Fahey stuff for about 4 years, this seems like a really intimidating piece to learn..
Could you people be kind enough to prepare me mentally or warn me for the difficulty ahead?
On the scale of 0-10 and from beginner to insane/professional, how would you rate it's difficulty level?

Many thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2015, 12:14 AM
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Can't rate how hard a piece is going to be for someone else to play, however the mere fact that you are asking the question makes me think you are going to have to work on it a while before it clicks.
If you are having trouble, realize that the tune mostly has a repetitive picking pattern throughout. Practice picking the pattern until you are reliable up to a third or half speed. Go from there.
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Old 06-18-2015, 03:40 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Why not just make your own version rather than trying to copy Leo?
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Old 06-18-2015, 05:24 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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I'd say the main challenge is the tempo. The RH patterns are stock ones, and the chord sequence is also fairly standard.
Would take a while to get it up to speed. And IMO, it would be easy enough to invent something of your own in the same style, throwing a few chords together with occasional spare finger embellishments.
IOW, it's Kottke's chops that are the most impressive thing about this piece. The musical content is not especially original or interesting (IMO). (But I'm going to learn it myself anyway...)
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Last edited by JonPR; 06-18-2015 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:30 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babigila View Post
Hi all, I've been tempted to attempt one of Kottke's piece, Stealing.
When I was uninitiated in fingerpicking, this type of songs seems pretty simple( "just chords and fingerstyle").. but now that I've been playing some delta blues and John Fahey stuff for about 4 years, this seems like a really intimidating piece to learn..
Could you people be kind enough to prepare me mentally or warn me for the difficulty ahead?
On the scale of 0-10 and from beginner to insane/professional, how would you rate it's difficulty level?

Many thanks in advance!
There are several somewhat different versions of Stealin' that Leo has recorded. The recording on the Mudlark album is my favorite, but a portion of it is recorded with two guitars at the same time, one in standard tuning (playing in C) and the other capoed at the third fret (playing in A). You can play them both sequentially by changing from the Key of C to the Key of A. If you have a recording setup, it's fun to record the C-Major version and then play it back while playing the A-Major version with it.

Leo released a version of the tune on the Try and Stop Me Album entitling the song Stolen. It's just the A Major version with a improvised flavor.

As far as difficultly level goes, it's probably an intermediate level piece, more or less. The Leo arrangment is harder to play than it sounds.

Last edited by sdelsolray; 06-20-2015 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 06-21-2015, 03:15 AM
bbrown bbrown is offline
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I think if you take it slowly and work at it long enough it will come. The time to get it up to speed will differ for eveyone, of course. For me, it takes a lot of repetition, and then, eventually, muscle memory does the work.

Here's my humble attempt....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVQP...kKsMLSCig5CmrT

I think it's a fabulous vintage Kottke tune.
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:47 AM
babigila babigila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
There are several somewhat different versions of Stealin' that Leo has recorded. The recording on the Mudlark album is my favorite, but a portion of it is recorded with two guitars at the same time, one in standard tuning (playing in C) and the other capoed at the third fret (playing in A). You can play them both sequentially by changing from the Key of C to the Key of A. If you have a recording setup, it's fun to record the C-Major version and then play it back while playing the A-Major version with it.

Leo released a version of the tune on the Try and Stop Me Album entitling the song Stolen. It's just the A Major version with a improvised flavor.

As far as difficultly level goes, it's probably an intermediate level piece, more or less. The Leo arrangment is harder to play than it sounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrown View Post
I think if you take it slowly and work at it long enough it will come. The time to get it up to speed will differ for eveyone, of course. For me, it takes a lot of repetition, and then, eventually, muscle memory does the work.

Here's my humble attempt....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVQP...kKsMLSCig5CmrT

I think it's a fabulous vintage Kottke tune.
sdelsolray,
Thanks for the useful info, I certainly can look up those other versions.
I'm currently looking to learn the one from "My feet are smiling" album.
That's the love/hate relation when I listen to Kottke.. that they're certainly harder to play than it sounds!

bbrown,
hey I actually came across your cover of Stealing months ago
Nice guitar there!
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2015, 09:04 AM
H165 H165 is offline
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Rick-slo has it right:

'....mostly has a repetitive picking pattern throughout. Practice picking the pattern until you are reliable up to a third or half speed."

This tune is very similar to "Doc's Guitar" in the picking pattern. Doc's style and guitar makes it sound smooth and easy while Leo's version of "Stealin' is a bit thumpy and tight on his short-sustain guitars. Both are what I call Cotten picking tunes:

http://www.guitarworld.com/hole-note...izabeth-cotten

Her guitar may look a bit cattywhompus, but the playing style is hers.
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:50 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H165 View Post
Rick-slo has it right:

'....mostly has a repetitive picking pattern throughout. Practice picking the pattern until you are reliable up to a third or half speed."

This tune is very similar to "Doc's Guitar" in the picking pattern. Doc's style and guitar makes it sound smooth and easy while Leo's version of "Stealin' is a bit thumpy and tight on his short-sustain guitars. Both are what I call Cotten picking tunes:

http://www.guitarworld.com/hole-note...izabeth-cotten

Her guitar may look a bit cattywhompus, but the playing style is hers.
Not only hers...
Blind Blake, Mississippi John Hurt, Blind Boy Fuller, etc...

But "cotten picking" is neat .
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:18 AM
bbrown bbrown is offline
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Cotton plays her guitar upside down (backwards).
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2015, 10:48 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrown View Post
Cotton plays her guitar upside down (backwards).
Indeed. Best not to copy Elizabeth Cotten's technique (listen, don't look).
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Why not just make your own version rather than trying to copy Leo?
I personally applaud that approach, but to far too many, you then "aren't really playing it". Personally, especially in some of his slow pieces (crow river waltz for instance), I find I sometimes ask "Why did Leo make that choice?" either melodically, or in a slight shift in picking pattern. The obvious answer of course is "Because he's Leo!" Another possible answer is "Ooops..."

But sometimes Blue likes to make some choices too!

Speaking of choices, I'm trying some Kanye style 3rd person stuff...
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:33 PM
birkenweg42 birkenweg42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post

Speaking of choices, I'm trying some Kanye style 3rd person stuff...
All the great ones do....
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:05 PM
blue blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birkenweg42 View Post
All the great ones do....
Ooops... Changed my mind... puff daddy just got arrested visiting his son at college... I guess the same thing that makes you go third person also makes you think you can fight somebody much younger than you with the words "Strength and Conditioning" in their job title...
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Last edited by blue; 06-23-2015 at 02:56 PM.
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