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  #16  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:18 PM
Jimmy Koh Jimmy Koh is offline
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Originally Posted by kramster View Post
Let's see now... Hmmmmm.... Currently a 3 way tie for fave... no particular oder so alphabetical CH-OM, Savoy, and X-20...
Great recommendation there Mark! I really gas for the Savoy now!
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  #17  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:23 PM
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Great recommendation there Mark! I really gas for the Savoy now!
I have to say, that the three Mark mentioned are the three that are on my radar for the future...but who knows what else the future may bring.
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:59 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Ok, I'm back, and I have no problems discussing my current favorites, which in no way suggests they should be yours.

I mostly use CF guitars as travel companions, so I'll start air travel, for which I tend to favor my Blackbird Rider, it's a guitar I've been traveling with since they were first introduced, (about ten years ago I think) but I have also traveled with my Journey OF660 and Rainsong Parlor as well. Really just depends what I'm doing at my destination. Six months out of twelve you will find my Rainsong BI-DR1100NS 12-Fret Dreadnought in the back of my SUV, in it's gig bag. Others in my arsenal that have been used as my "car guitar" include my CA OX, my custom RainSong OM, (basically a 14-fret Shorty) my Journey RT660, and more recently my Blackbird Savoy, which is turning out to be an amazingly versatile acoustic, BTW. I keep two CA Cargos at our mountain home, but sometimes I will bring an additional CF acoustic, or two up, depending on my mood. Right now my Rainsong DR3100 12-String, and my Savoy are with me as well.

So as you can see I have many favorites, too many in fact according to Helene. She is often ready to go while I am still in my guitar room trying to decide which guitar(s) to bring with us.

So, there you have it, Tom, my current favorites, for now.
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  #19  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:45 PM
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Thanks Ted. I really appreciate it. Given all the guitars you have access to, I find your choices insightful. I will bear in mind your referenced guitars and those of Mark for my own future considerations. I haven't made any effort to find and try Rainsongs, but now I will be. Quite interesting that the Savoy is a common fav between you and Mark. This enhances my interest. Thanks again!
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2017, 02:51 PM
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Tom;

From what I've read, heard, and seen on this forum, Joe hit bingo with the Savoy. If he can keep up with the orders I hope he'll eventually move to a nylon sting version.
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  #21  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:08 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
a nylon sting version.
Interesting concept.
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:23 PM
Barb1 Barb1 is offline
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Evan, I'd love to see a Nylon version of the Savoy!
Barb
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  #23  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:04 PM
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Barb1;

Joe know what he has and he pays attention to the narrative that follows his art. I suspect that a nylon is in consideration.
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  #24  
Old 08-13-2017, 04:20 PM
Tom2 Tom2 is offline
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The more I think about it, the more I would rather not have a nylon Savoy, because that would make it just another attempt at modifying a pre-existing steel string design. The crossover is a worthy instrument in its own right, and deserves to be designed from scratch.

Blackbird builds both the neck and body into a single mold, so a specialized crossover neck would require the creation of a new body mold as well. This would be a great opportunity to design a crossover with classical body specs instead of steel string specs, along with the specialized neck dimensions that are specifically relevant to a crossover.

I recently found a dealer of high end classical guitars, and each guitar has all of its measurements posted on its web page. They all have an overall body length of 19" and the bridge is located in the center of the lower bout. The larger ones have a lower bout width of 14 1/2" and a depth of 4". 650mm and 640mm scales are both common. Upper bout dimensions are irrelevant because a crossover will have a cutaway, maybe an offset sound hole, and possibly modified design to give more fret access.

These dimensions are slightly smaller than a typical steel string instrument, and would de-emphasize bass without needing to shift the bridge to the 14 fret position. I think that keeping the 12 fret bridge position is key for preserving nylon tone.

Maybe crossovers aren't as popular as they could be because no one has done this. Takamine is closest, but they all have barn door electronics, need a regular supply of water, and can't be left in a car.

To me, a 19" body length, 14 1/2" lower bout width, 4" lower bout depth, 12 fret, cutaway body would be a clear winner. Add a 640mm scale, a 48.5mm nut width, a 20" fretboard radius, and a compound eliptical (or conical) neck profile whose center thickness is 40% to 45% its width at the nut, expanding by 5% at the 12th fret, and the first true crossover is born.

I don't see Emerald making one of these, because it doesn't fit the profile of the X20, X10, or X7, so Blackbird is probably the best chance of bringing this design into being.
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  #25  
Old 08-13-2017, 06:20 PM
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Tom 2;

You continue to amaze me. Your response to an Ekoa nylon string guitar is right on the money. Converting a steel string guitar to a nylon string guitar is not the way to make a superior, contemporary, nylon string guitar.

Joe could do the guitar you envision. His steel and nylon Riders are very different horses and Joe know that difference. As to whether he's inclined to start at the start with a new nylon????
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  #26  
Old 08-13-2017, 06:45 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by Acousticado View Post
Thanks Ted. I really appreciate it. Given all the guitars you have access to, I find your choices insightful. I will bear in mind your referenced guitars and those of Mark for my own future considerations. I haven't made any effort to find and try Rainsongs, but now I will be. Quite interesting that the Savoy is a common fav between you and Mark. This enhances my interest. Thanks again!
Always happy to share, but let me remind you that my current favorites reflect my lifestyle, not anyone else's. For instance, if I were flying International on a regular basis, the Journey would probably be my first choice for air travel, and if I performed live, there would be a Rainsong CO-WS1000N2 in the list along with a few others.
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2017, 05:47 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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As someone who retired from a career in semiconductor design and manufacturing (reliability and composite materials were a big part of that life) I would be cautious about buying a limited production composite instrument. Judging by what I see in stores and on-line, only RainSong has made enough of these long enough to really know that what they are doing works. A competent luthier can rescue any wooden guitar but I'm not sure what you do about some of these composite instruments and I've owned a few that I found marginal. As long as it is good fun and not money you need to live than of course go for it.
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  #28  
Old 08-14-2017, 06:22 AM
kramster kramster is offline
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Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
As long as it is good fun and not money you need to live than of course go for it.
Great fun and part of living. Just say'in.
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Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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  #29  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:08 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
.....I would be cautious about buying a limited production composite instrument. Judging by what I see in stores and on-line, only RainSong has made enough of these long enough to really know that what they are doing works. .....
I believe that all of the current manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty to the original owner much like the wood guitar builders do (although Peavey's willingness to stand behind that has come into question here of late). Carbon fiber would be tough to repair, if it ever needed any, but if the manufacturer is willing to replace a guitar with manufacturing defects outright....

My 2001 Rainsong WS-1000 has been flawless for the sixteen years that I've owned it, and ditto for the PMJ-1000 hybrid from around 2006. The other two current CF guitars (2014 Peavey era Cargo and 2016 Blackbird Lucky 13, with an Emerald 12 string pending) have also been without issue or problems of any kind.

The only problems that I recall hearing about were neck angle problems with SOME of the original CA guitars just before they shut their doors in 2010, and some folks would like to have a truss rod in their original "N1" Rainsong necks to adjust relief. The N2 neck has a truss rod, hence the beefier shape.
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  #30  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:32 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
...The N2 neck has a truss rod, hence the beefier shape.
Regarding the Rainsong N2 neck, I believe the shape had nothing to do with the addition of the truss rod, in fact I'm told that if there is ever enough demand for the return of the N1 neck, it will also have a truss rod.
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