Dimarzio Black Angel - pole piece adjustment?

[Ryan Alexander]

Hey all

I've just added a Black Angel to my Lowden O-10 along with the already installed Schatten HFN SBT. I also purchased a Red-Eye Twin to run everything into my Fishman Loudbox Artist, but I've ultimately decided I want more EQ control over each channel (I'll have a Felix on the way hopefully soon). I'm curious if anyone here has experience using the Angel in a similar dual source setup? This is my first magnetic pickup, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to incorporate it. The Schatten will do most of the heavy lifting and I hope to have the mag bolster the low end without adding too much magnetic flavor in the mids and highs. I was able to get pretty close using the Red-Eye and amp EQ, but since the Twin doesn't separate the outputs without modification I couldn't EQ the channels separately. I then started looking at adding a couple of parametric EQs, and quickly realized why the Felix is priced the way it is. Trying to put together that kind of functionality with multiple pedals gets equally expensive real fast

I started by lowering the high B and E poles all the way down (I think I read that here somewhere). Is it generally preferable to just EQ out what I don't want from the mag, or to lower the pole pieces on the strings I'm trying NOT to highlight - or both?

Any help is appreciated!

[curbucci]

Try some John Pearse or GHS white bronze strings first. Those strings are great for magnetic pickups. If you are liking your phosphor bronze then start by taking out the b string pole out and see how that works. Also try taking the high e pole out if you still feel it needs it.

[Ryan Alexander]

I'm using the Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze and have no intentions of changing, they are too good! Thanks for the suggestion on removing the poles - I was considering that, but wasn't sure if lowering them all the way achieved the same result. I'll give it a shot

[benderman57]

I remember reading somewhere (probably on this forum) that the Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze Strings would not work well with a Magnetic pickup because of the makeup of the string. I have never tried this myself.

I have for a long time used some kind of Mag pickup as a 2nd source in my Takamine's that have Cool Tube Preamps. I for the most part use Elixir Phos. Bronze Strings with good results. I only dial in about 1/3 of the mag along with the undersaddle.

I have read as the other person stated that the GHS white Bronze works great with Mags but have not tried it as I've been happy with my tone the way it is.

[Ryan Alexander]

Originally Posted by benderman57

I remember reading somewhere (probably on this forum) that the Ernie Ball Aluminum Bronze Strings would not work well with a Magnetic pickup because of the makeup of the string. I have never tried this myself.

Interesting - I haven't read this myself, but thanks for sharing. There are a few prominent players using this combo (Antoine Dufour and Mike Dawes) with good success, so I think I'm ok in that regard. The setup sounds good already running into my Loudbox Artist (with and without the Red-Eye Twin that I demoed), I'm just trying to find any tips or tricks that might be helpful in finding the best way to blend and EQ of this type of combo. I've been playing a long time, but acoustic amplification is still pretty new ground for me.

Something interesting I found in this video from Jimmy Wahlsteen regarding EQ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yx7WWfZC1U

Around 3:14 or so he talks about how he applies the same EQ to both channels of his Black Angel mag/SBT combo. His sound is very nice, maybe a bit more mag heavy than I want. I splurged on a Felix, so I'll have some interesting things to try next week Cheers guys.

[Al Acuff]

Here's how I adjust the pole pieces. First, adjust the magnets for the low strings so that when you fret the string at the highest fret it does not hit the magnet. Then adjust the high E string magnet so it's about level with the top of the pickup and set the B string a little lower.

Now play your guitar acoustically and listen. Hear the natural string balance when you strum a chord. Play through your amp or PA and adjust the magnets until you get as close to that natural string balance as you can. Keep comparing back and forth.

FWIW I prefer standard phosphor bronze strings with my Black Angel. There's no harm in experimenting. You never know...

Hope this helps. I like my Black Angel a lot. Enjoy!

[Ryan Alexander]

Hi Al, thanks for weighing in and sorry for the late reply. I used John Pearse PB for many years before switching to the Aluminum Bronze - I'm very happy with them and would probably swap the pickup out before changing strings again

Regarding your method for adjusting the poles for the bass strings - you said:

First, adjust the magnets for the low strings so that when you fret the string at the highest fret it does not hit the magnet.

Are you setting the poles just below the point of contact when fretting at the highest fret? And have you staggered them from low E to G, or are they pretty close in height? I'll have to try this tonight, because I'm feeling like I'm not getting enough output from the mag as I have it set now (more or less factory heights).

[Al Acuff]

You don't want the strings to ever hit the magnets. That's your practical mechanical limit. Rely on your ear for the fine adjustments.

[Ryan Alexander]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

You don't want the strings to ever hit the magnets. That's your practical mechanical limit. Rely on your ear for the fine adjustments.

Indeed, I understand that. I've also heard that getting the strings too close to the magnets can have the effect of making the strings sound out of tune. I had planned to mess around with this last night, but ended up chasing down a rattle instead Thanks for your advice!

[AndyC]

I have a Black Angel in a dual source set up with a K&K Pure Mini - and it works incredibly well. The system was set up and EQ balanced for me by renowned UK luthier Nick Benjamin (who also built Mike Dawes' guitar and configured his pickup system). I use Elixir Light Medium Phosphor Bronze Nanoweb strings.

I use a Bose T1 Tonematch as a pre-amp (as does Mike Dawes I believe) and the EQ is configured so that the K&K provides the bulk of the mid range / top end frequencies and the Black Angel provides the bottom end. I play a lot of material in a dropped E tuning (i.e 1st -5th strings capo'd at 2nd fret and bottom E open) and the sound that this combo produces when playing in that tuning is breathtaking. At Nick's suggestion, I am considering the addition of a K&K mic to add some further high end "shimmer".

By the way, I also tried this set up with a Grace Design Felix - but I found that I got better results using the Bose T1. I sold the Felix - but it is still a great piece of kit.

Nick removed the B string pole completely, and the high E pole is screwed down pretty much as far as it will go. The rest of the poles seem to ascend in height proportionate to the strings - hopefully the picture will help.

[benderman57]

Someone please report back on how the EB Aluminum Bronze strings sound with a Mag pickup. I bought a set a while ago to put on my Emerald X20 that just sits out to grab. I don't use it to gig with and hardly ever even plug it in but it doesn't have a mag anyway.

Kinda loving the tone from these after they settle in. I'll probably just try it on one of my gigging Taks with Cool Tube / Mag setup anyway but just wanted to see if anyone has any actual time with them using a mag to see what your thoughts are.

[Ryan Alexander]

AndyC - that picture helps a ton, thanks so much for sharing! I had planned to reach out to you as I noticed from older posts that you were also using the Felix and the Dimarzio. I feel a bit stunned that this method of "reverse staggering" the poles had not occurred to me! I'm really looking forward to trying this over the weekend. Although the Schatten SBT I'm using is rather mic-like at times, I'll likely end up adding a mic as well for that extra dimension of tweak-ability

Interesting that you preferred the T1 to the Felix. Would you say the Felix was a bit too honest or hi-fi sounding for your taste? That seems to be one of the only complaints I have heard from users that seem to prefer something that adds a bit of colour. I have never tried a T1 myself, but I'll be certain to put it on my radar.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Ryan Alexander

AndyC - that picture helps a ton, thanks so much for sharing! I had planned to reach out to you as I noticed from older posts that you were also using the Felix and the Dimarzio. I feel a bit stunned that this method of "reverse staggering" the poles had not occurred to me! I'm really looking forward to trying this over the weekend. Although the Schatten SBT I'm using is rather mic-like at times, I'll likely end up adding a mic as well for that extra dimension of tweak-ability

Interesting that you preferred the T1 to the Felix. Would you say the Felix was a bit too honest or hi-fi sounding for your taste? That seems to be one of the only complaints I have heard from users that seem to prefer something that adds a bit of colour. I have never tried a T1 myself, but I'll be certain to put it on my radar.

I found that the Bose T1 handled the High Pass Filtering better than the Felix and for whatever reason gave me a better and more manageable blended sound when combining the two sources. And, of course, I still have additional channels available if I decide to add a microphone to the set up. I wouldn't say that the Felix was too honest or hi-fi sounding, but I struggled to get the same mix out of the Felix that I like so much out of the Bose. The Felix is a great product, but I think the Bose is undervalued as a guitar pre-amp. It's doing a great job for me. Additionally, as I sometimes play in a duo, I can save a different "scene" in the Bose for when I am just using the K&K in isolation to free up channels so my partner can plug in - again, all of the different EQ for the K&K on its' own is stored in this scene and I just use a mono guitar lead on the tip circuit for the K&K only. (I have a stereo TRS cable that I use when combining the K&K with the DiMarzio - the K&K on the tip, the DiMarzio on the ring).