Problems with K&K and octave pedals

joeguam · #1 04-17-2015, 11:26 PM

Does anyone use a K&K pure mini with an octave pedal for their acoustics? Trying to loop some simple bass lines but for some reason can't get any sound from the low E string.

Here are some details:
- Got the proper lower octave note from the A string, just not the E
- Using a Boss OC-3, but have also tried 3 other octave pedals and have the same issue
- Tried testing it through two different systems including an 18" JBL B-52 subwoofer...same issue.

Could it be that the frequency of the low E with the K&K is already really low and dropping it an octave lower just puts it below the subwoofer's frequency range?

Any thoughts?
Thanks.

philjs · #2 04-18-2015, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeguam

Could it be that the frequency of the low E with the K&K is already really low and dropping it an octave lower just puts it below the subwoofer's frequency range?

Low E on a guitar is 82.4 Hz so an octave below would be 41.2 Hz. Most subs go down to 35Hz so the frequency shouldn't be the problem...

Phil

ukejon · #3 04-18-2015, 05:57 AM

What happens when you fret higher up the fretboard on the E?

jonfields45 · #4 04-18-2015, 06:10 AM

Do you have some sort of active buffer or preamp between the K&K and the octave pedal? A K&K straight into the latest 12 string pedal from Digitech does not work that well either in my experience.

joeguam · #5 04-18-2015, 07:18 AM

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'll try to answer the questions:
- I'm running the K&K through a Boss GE-7 first before the octave pedal. I have the GE-7 set to the tone I like, clear of any mud and a good-sounding natural acoustic guitar sound.
- When I fret above the 5th fret on the low E, I get the lower octave notes just like on the A string
- I tried using the BASS IN jack on the Boss OC-3, but it didn't help, got horrible sound out of it.
- I checked the specs of my sub and it drops only as low as 45Hz...so 42 might be too low...hmm.
- There's another octave pedal in shipment that I'll try, the T-Rex Octavius, I'll see if that one works.

If the T-Rex does not work, I'm not sure what to do. Someone suggested to change my pickups, but I don't think I could ever go back to undersaddle transducers. Just not sure what to do at this point, but I need to figure it out because looping my bass lines dry from the guitar is going to blow my mid cabinet speakers soon. Hoping someone can help me please...

joeguam · #6 04-18-2015, 07:42 AM

philjs, took your idea and did some testing. I gig a 1/2-step down tuned to D# which is 77Hz (verified on the Peterson istrobosoft tuner app). An octave lower would be around 38.5 and that would be too low for the subwoofer which is 45-150Hz. This may explain why there isn't any sound coming out of the sub from the octave pedal. In addition, the only notes I can use through the sub's frequency range are from D# on the low-E to D on the GBS low-A strings.

Ugh...am I hopeless at this point?

pops · #7 04-18-2015, 07:43 AM

You could use a sound hole pickup and just use it for the octave pedal and keep the guitar signal separate, think it would make for a better sound too.

joeguam · #8 04-18-2015, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pops

You could use a sound hole pickup and just use it for the octave pedal and keep the guitar signal separate, think it would make for a better sound too.

Thanks for this suggestion, the octave pedal manual did say that humbuckers on electric guitars produce the best lower octave tone. Now to start researching soundhole pickups...

If anyone has any other suggestions, it would greatly help. Thanks.

stephenT · #9 04-18-2015, 03:34 PM

Now you're talking. Sunrise or second best, DiMarzio "The Angel".

joeguam · #10 04-18-2015, 08:23 PM

A sunrise would be awesome, but that's way over my budget. I went with an LR Baggs M1 passive to try it out.

Thanks everyone, I'll report back with how it goes as soon as it arrives in the mail.

SimplyLuo · #11 04-18-2015, 09:53 PM

Soundboard transducers and octave pedals are not a good combo. Body noise or percussive sounds from your hand hitting the top and other such sounds mess it up. The M1 makes me a bit hesitant as well, since it does pick up some of the body. You really want to get only the strings.
Thomas Leeb showed me his setup; the only thing going into his Boss OC-3 is a magnetic pickup. Same with Jon Gomm and Petteri Sariola.

That said, your problem is pretty weird. Which mode are you using on the OC-3?

joeguam · #12 04-19-2015, 12:06 AM

Interesting, but it's good to know that there's success with magnetic pickups out there if the M1 doesn't workout. I tried the OC-3 on all modes and settings. I even tried using the BASS IN jack instead, still couldn't get anything usable.

stephenT · #13 04-19-2015, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeguam

A sunrise would be awesome, but that's way over my budget. I went with an LR Baggs M1 passive to try it out.

Thanks everyone, I'll report back with how it goes as soon as it arrives in the mail.

the M1 is a place to begin,..

joeguam · #14 04-19-2015, 07:10 AM

Did some additional testing with the subwoofer in my PA, which is an HK Elements sub, and my electric bass guitar. Every note on the low E and A strings rung through the sub perfectly with great tone. Tested the frequency as well and the D# (which is the lowest note on the E string tuned down a half step) measured at 77Hz and that's the same as what it measures from my acoustic guitar.

So I guess I'm a bit confused now because I thought the bass guitar would measure at 38.5Hz, assuming it's an octave lower than the acoustic guitar...but that doesn't seem to be the case. Can someone shed some light on this? Does the octave pedal really drop the acoustic guitar's frequency down by half? I'm even more confused now.

SimplyLuo · #15 04-19-2015, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeguam

Did some additional testing with the subwoofer in my PA, which is an HK Elements sub, and my electric bass guitar. Every note on the low E and A strings rung through the sub perfectly with great tone. Tested the frequency as well and the D# (which is the lowest note on the E string tuned down a half step) measured at 77Hz and that's the same as what it measures from my acoustic guitar.

So I guess I'm a bit confused now because I thought the bass guitar would measure at 38.5Hz, assuming it's an octave lower than the acoustic guitar...but that doesn't seem to be the case. Can someone shed some light on this? Does the octave pedal really drop the acoustic guitar's frequency down by half? I'm even more confused now.

The D string on the bass is the same as the low E on a guitar tuned down to a D, it's not an octave lower