Any Experience with the AER AG8 Monitor/Extension Speaker?

[open-road-matt]

Short version:

I'm considering the AER AG8 to use with my AER Compact 60/3 to act as a monitor and hopefully give me some more sonic coverage in venues that need it.

Long version:

A bit of background: I bought an AER Compact 60/3 at the end of November. This is a wonderful little amp! I wanted something that was small and portable, sounded great and could fill a small or even medium sized room and this amp delivered on all of these things.

However....with the warmer weather I have set up outside a couple of times and I have 2 concerns:

1) Coverage. This amp puts out an amazing amount of sound for its size. I have used it at a handful of indoor shows and it easily filled the room without turning the master volume up much at all. Outside is a different creature. I do several shows throughout the summer where I'm out on decks, patios, etc. and there is a main focal point for the music (tables and chairs) but there are people everywhere!

One of these spots is a wonderful patio behind a hotel about 100 yards from the shore of Lake Superior. The lake walk is right next to the patio with handsome cabs, bikes, rollerblades, joggers, etc. Many times with my L1 Compact I had people come up and buy CD's that I didn't even see while I was playing. In other words, my potential audience is much larger than the small sitting area.

So while the AER puts out a lot of sound for such a small package, it is much more directional. The sound is fantastic for those in the throw of the amp but the sound drops off very quickly off to either side and there is almost nothing from the rear (compared to the Bose.)

2) Monitoring. Using the AER indoors, I have set it up so I am off to the side of it and even a tad behind. I can hear myself just OK. I've gotten even more picky about this in my old age! I don't play all that much any more and if I'm going to spend a lot of money on great gear, I'd like to hear my guitar and vocals as well as those in the audience!

I've also come to realize that if I'm going to push any kind of volume, I can't use a single source as both mains and a monitor (the exception being my Bose L1 Model 2 and even that can be hard on my ears in some venues.)

My ears have become much more sensitive in the last handful of years. I couldn't stand to have the Bose L1 Compact directly behind me. I'm tall and that lines my ears right up with that little active part of the tower and even at modest volume levels, it was quite piercing!

I'm finding the AER to be like that as well. If I need some volume, I can't be close enough or in front of the amp enough to hear myself the way I'd like.

So that's where I am: wonderful sounding, super portable, little amp that could be perfect for many venues with just a little help.

My thought is that if I could set up something like the AER AG8 as a monitor and position it correctly, it could also add some more coverage to places that need it.

This would allow me to put the Compact 60 up on a speaker stand and set the position and the volume to suit the audience while giving me the sonic bliss I hope would come from the AG8.

The plus sides I can see with the AG8 are the size and weight. I like the fact that it is already configured as a wedge so I'm not propping things up or using stands. I can take it out of the bag and throw it on the ground. And I'm assuming the sound quality would be wonderful.

The downsides: The cost! $950 seems like A LOT for this. (I could get a QSC K10 with tote bag and go out for a very nice dinner with the $ left over!) And the configuration, in two regards. I don't know why they didn't include a way to mount this, either on a mic stand or a speaker stand. It seems like that would make it much more versatile. And it looks like the angle, when used as a wedge would point the thing right at my knees! Very common for a tall person who stands when they play!

Those are just some of the things I'm pondering. I could be OK with the price IF and only IF the AG8 sounds as good as my Compact 60 AND it's able to do double duty by giving me a monitor AND expanding my coverage area.

If it can't meet those criteria, I'll just keep the Compact 60 for the small stuff and set up my Bose L1 Model 2. That's about the only option that gives me the coverage I want AND allows me to use it as a monitor without hurting my ears.

Sorry for such a long post!

Matt

[brokenpretzel]

my situation is similar but different????
i use my acoustic image chorus plus as my stage monitor but position it on the ground (because it has the 10 inch downfiring woofer which creates more bass that way) behind me and off to the side. i also send sound out to my markbass two ten cabinet (because i play 7 string and need that punch) and then i put a qsc k10 in front to the other side of the acoustic image. with this configuration i can play outside to 150 people pretty well.
by having the acoustic image as my monitor i can adjust it as need be and get the satisfaction of "my sound" on stage and send a good signal to audience.
i know this doesn't answer your question but hopefully helps some

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by brokenpretzel

my situation is similar but different????
i use my acoustic image chorus plus as my stage monitor but position it on the ground (because it has the 10 inch downfiring woofer which creates more bass that way) behind me and off to the side. i also send sound out to my markbass two ten cabinet (because i play 7 string and need that punch) and then i put a qsc k10 in front to the other side of the acoustic image. with this configuration i can play outside to 150 people pretty well.
by having the acoustic image as my monitor i can adjust it as need be and get the satisfaction of "my sound" on stage and send a good signal to audience.
i know this doesn't answer your question but hopefully helps some

Absolutely it helps!
My original thought was to sell my Bose and buy two QSC K10's. This would allow me to be a bit more modular, so to speak. I would basically have 3 set ups 1) The AER Compact 60 by itself, 2) The AER as my mixer/stage monitor out to 1 K10 and 3) same but out to 2 K10's.

After some consideration, I moved away from this idea. I guess I'm scared to give up the coverage I've come to love from the Bose. The QSC stuff sounds amazing but I still play venues where I have people all over the place. Concerts in the park, festivals, etc. and the coverage I get from the Bose has served me SO well for over a decade.

For some reason to me it seems like (at least in my head) that by the time I go K10 on a speaker stand, Compact 60 propped up on the little wedge to make it a monitor, I've done close to as much hauling and set up as my Bose L1 model 2!

I'm not sure why the K10 seems like that while the idea of the Compact 60 on the stand and AG8 on the ground does not! Hmmm. Maybe the AER components are so small and light that it still sits in the realm of a mini-set up while the K10 moves into the area of PA system.

Matt

[sdelsolray]

Matt,

Some time ago I auditioned pairs of AER AG8 and AER AS 280 (older model - current model is AS 281), on sticks, using a SBT/internal mic'd guitar through my SPS-1 as a source. It was a fairly large room (maybe 30' x 30' by 20' tall). They sounded and behaved quite well, although the bass response on sticks of the AG8 was lighter than the AS 280.

At a different time (same room though) I tried pairs of Schertler Sides and Pub 280, same setup. These also sounded and behaved well. The Pub 280 was very impressive.

Given that you already have an AER 60, I suspect adding an AER AG8 would be a worthy addition.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Matt,

Some time ago I auditioned pairs of AER AG8 and AER AS 280 (older model - current model is AS 281), on sticks, using a SBT/internal mic'd guitar through my SPS-1 as a source. It was a fairly large room (maybe 30' x 30' by 20' tall). They sounded and behaved quite well, although the bass response on sticks of the AG8 was lighter than the AS 280.

At a different time (same room though) I tried pairs of Schertler Sides and Pub 280, same setup. These also sounded and behaved well. The Pub 280 was very impressive.

Given that you already have an AER 60, I suspect adding an AER AG8 would be a worthy addition.

sdelsolray!
Thanks for the info! Did I read that right, that you had the AG8 on a stick? I am having a hard time finding a lot of info on the AG8. From the pictures I've found of the current incarnation, the AG8-2, it doesn't look like there is a way to mount it on a mic stand or speaker stand.

Matt

[GanAinm]

Hi. I've used the AG8 quite a bit. (AG8/60a. It has a 5/16" mic stand input on the bottom.) ***See footnote below

I really like the flexibility of (any of) "killer small amp" (whatever your favorite brand) --> small extension speaker (ideally matching, but whatever equivalent) --> full PA. You can overlap that middle ground with the other two, but there are times when the extension speaker is just the thing.

I understand the AG8 is supposed to be a perfect match for the Compact 60. I used it with the Acousticube IIa, where it wasn't a perfect match (slightly different flavor of speaker?), although pretty good. The nice thing about the AG8 is it had a simple two tone circuit on the back (treble and bass only, so not exactly the same as the three-tone on the amp), but it helped get the match. You've probably spent quite a bit of time with your primary amp so you can dial in what you're looking for in about 10 seconds if you need to. If your extension speaker doesn't sound "exactly" the same, it's a bit disturbing. Usually it has the same character as your primary tone, but there might be something a bit off about the bias - and if so, the treble/bass adjustments help you correct it quickly. Even so, I always preferred my primary amp slightly.
Pros: Very light! (about 17.5 lbs) I liked the wedge corner, although I usually raised it up, at least on a chair. Versatile back panel. It does have the 5/16" mic stand fitting***, but come to think of it, I never tried it.
Cons: It might be a good match for your amp, but it was not a very versatile PA monitor (granted, that's not what it was made for, but it doesn't have a boost switch on the back, which would help match its output to certain PA systems). It's expensive, so hopefully you can find a used one for about half the price. It never had a manual (?) - ok, duh, everything is pretty straightforward, maybe it's just me, but I like to check specs and match things to my other devices etc. When you use an extension speaker you have to make two trips (otherwise I can get by with one) - on the one hand, this is no big deal, on the other hand, it changes everything. Also using a second speaker seems to add a good 10 minutes to the setup time.

I've moved on to its bigger brother the CX8/2. It's a gorgeous sounding speaker and almost perfect match for my present amp, always. But the CX8/2 doesn't have tone controls on the back! (although it does have a boost) (AER, wha? How tough would it be to duplicate the three-tone circuit that's on the amp?! It's not like it doesn't already cost a fortune and it should be a money-is-no-object product.) And it has square corners - I miss the one wedge corner on the AG8. Still, looking on the bright side, if it was perfect I wouldn't have anything to complain about.


***On Edit: Come to think of it, I don't actually know what the thread size was on the AG8. It could have been M8 (5/16") or 3/8", but it was smaller, not the other common M16 (5/8") mic stand size.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

sdelsolray!
Thanks for the info! Did I read that right, that you had the AG8 on a stick? I am having a hard time finding a lot of info on the AG8. From the pictures I've found of the current incarnation, the AG8-2, it doesn't look like there is a way to mount it on a mic stand or speaker stand.

Matt

I thought they were mounted on speaker stands, not mic stands, but I'm likely wrong - it was about 7 years ago.

[brokenpretzel]

also there is an acoustic image two 10 extension that probably kicks more bass than the aer, $878 with bag at this one site http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product..._SERIES_4.html

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by GanAinm

Hi. I've used the AG8 quite a bit. (AG8/60a. It has a 5/16" mic stand input on the bottom.)

I really like the flexibility of (any of) "killer small amp" (whatever your favorite brand) --> small extension speaker (ideally matching, but whatever equivalent) --> full PA. You can overlap that middle ground with the other two, but there are times when the extension speaker is just the thing.

I understand the AG8 is supposed to be a perfect match for the Compact 60. I used it with the Acousticube IIa, where it wasn't a perfect match (slightly different flavor of speaker?), although pretty good. The nice thing about the AG8 is it had a simple two tone circuit on the back (treble and bass only, so not exactly the same as the three-tone on the amp), but it helped get the match. You've probably spent quite a bit of time with your primary amp so you can dial in what you're looking for in about 10 seconds if you need to. If your extension speaker doesn't sound "exactly" the same, it's a bit disturbing. Usually it has the same character as your primary tone, but there might be something a bit off about the bias - and if so, the treble/bass adjustments help you correct it quickly. Even so, I always preferred my primary amp slightly.
Pros: Very light! (about 17.5 lbs) I liked the wedge corner, although I usually raised it up, at least on a chair. Versatile back panel. It does have the 5/16" mic stand fitting, but come to think of it, I never tried it.
Cons: It might be a good match for your amp, but it was not a very versatile PA monitor (granted, that's not what it was made for, but it doesn't have a boost switch on the back, which would help match its output to certain PA systems). It's expensive, so hopefully you can find a used one for about half the price. It never had a manual (?) - ok, duh, everything is pretty straightforward, maybe it's just me, but I like to check specs and match things to my other devices etc. When you use an extension speaker you have to make two trips (otherwise I can get by with one) - on the one hand, this is no big deal, on the other hand, it changes everything. Also using a second speaker seems to add a good 10 minutes to the setup time.

I've moved on to its bigger brother the CX8/2. It's a gorgeous sounding speaker and almost perfect match for my present amp, always. But the CX8/2 doesn't have tone controls on the back! (although it does have a boost) (AER, wha? How tough would it be to duplicate the three-tone circuit that's on the amp?! It's not like it doesn't already cost a fortune and it should be a money-is-no-object product.) And it has square corners - I miss the one wedge corner on the AG8. Still, looking on the bright side, if it was perfect I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

Both the line out and the DI out on the AER Compact 60 is post-eq. This means that the signal that a the power amp in an extension unit (such as the AG8) receives the exact same signal that the power amp in the Compact 60 receives. Since the power amp and speaker are identical in the Compact 60 and AG8, they should sound identical, subject to placement anomolies.

AER Compact Block Diagram

[GanAinm]

Come to think of it, I don't actually know what the thread size was on the AG8. It could have been M8 (5/16") or 3/8", but it was smaller, not the other common M16 (5/8") mic stand size. I'll edit my post above. My AG8 had a little recessed plate about 3/4" x 2 1/2", mounted with 2 hex key screws/bolts. The plate had the threads for the mic stand in the middle. But there's room inside the speaker, so perhaps there are other plates that take a speaker stand, or if not, I think there are various mic to speaker stand adapters.

My CX8 has a recessed 4" circular plate mounted with 4 hex key screws/bolts, with an M20 (3/4") thread in the middle (I think it's K&M Part # 24116). I don't know what that is supposed to fit (I've never used it either) but there's no room inside for a larger speaker pole insert. It's a bit heavier at 23 lbs though.

[jseth]

Matt;

A few weeks ago, someone stole ONLY the two speaker sections to my Bose Classic (!), leaving me with the B1 sub-woofer and the Powerstand - which, of course, are totally useless without those speakers...

For a short while, i thought about doing exactly what you proposed; I already have an AER Compact 60, which I love. I have noticed that, when the AER is turned up to "performing levels", it has quite wonderful dispersion, very similar to my Bose system. So, I reasoned that getting the AG8 would be perfect for a small, lightweight PA system.

I have heard the QSC K series speakers, and they sound really good... BUT ONLY IF you happen to be in the "cone" sweetspot... although they purportedly have decent dispersion, I have noticed that the tone and volume of the source signal drops off markedly as one moves to either side of center of the speaker's throw... as someone else mentioned, the sound also drops off as you move further away from the speaker.

I don't think you will even come close to the remarkable dispersion of your Bose rig. It's just not gonna happen, not with one or two PA speakers, no matter how nice they are. It's really just "the nature of the beast"... standard speaker technology does not spread the sound around, evenly, like the Bose units do.

So, you are going to be replacing the Bose with something that isn't going to function the way you want... plus, you will "take a bath" selling your Bose rig used, then you'll need to spend whatever it takes to get the speakers you want. Just doesn't seem like such a great idea to me... spend a few bucks on a collapsible folding hand-truck; use the AER for smaller gigs and the Bose when you need it...

Just my 2 cents, is all...

(Thanks to the guys at Bose Customer Service, I now have a brand new Model II - they let me trade-in just the Powerstand and gave me the full rate for an complete system in that exchange! I couldn't be happier! Plus, I REALLY like the Powerstand of the Model II; not only is it 10-15 #s lighter than my old Classic Powerstand, it is FAR more manageable for transporting...)

[open-road-matt]

Thanks everyone for the help. I really appreciate all the info.

jseth,
I hear exactly what you are saying! Lots to think about!

Thanks again!
Matt