Anybody else come up with the chorus first

[Cecil6243]

when writing a song? I seem to do that a lot. Maybe it's common?

[Charlie Bernstein]

Yes, it's common. It's a powerful way (not the only powerful way) to launch a song. That's why the Beatles did it so often.

The members of Tom Petty's Heartbreakers used to tell him, "Don't bore us! Get to the chorus!"

[JonPR]

I suspect most songwriters write most of their songs chorus first, because that would be where an initial idea comes from, the kind of hook that inspires you to develop it.
In fact it seems odd to me to write a verse first, because then you need to have a stronger idea for a chorus.

When actually putting the whole song together to perform or record, most songs do start with the verse, saving the chorus for more impact later.

Of course, Charlie is right that beginning the song with the chorus has a lot of impact. The Beatles - for all their well-honed instincts for crowd appeal - didn't do it that often, and in at least one case, it was George Martin who suggested opening with the chorus: Can't Buy Me Love. I.e., Paul might well have written the chorus first, but would have gone with traditional formats to perform the song, until George Martin (with his better trained sense of what made a no.1 record) suggested the change.

IOW, for performing in front of an audience, leaving the chorus for later (although not too much later...) makes sense. You have a captive audience! They're not going to leave after 30 seconds if they haven't heard a chorus! They're prepared to allow tension to build up. Radio listeners are different. As Martin knew, you have to grab them in the first few seconds, or they change channels, switch off, or get distracted by something else.

[Cecil6243]

Awesome! So I am not alone. I just need to write the song so the I can use the chorus when it's time. Thank you for for the comments!

Another thing I've noticed about a lot of songs out there is, the best ones seem to tell a story. I know that does't sound profound but it seems to be true.

[Cecil6243]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Yes, it's common. It's a powerful way (not the only powerful way) to launch a song. That's why the Beatles did it so often.

The members of Tom Petty's Heartbreakers used to tell him, "Don't bore us! Get to the chorus!"

Charlie,

So what are other powerful ways to launch a song?

I'm guessing one is a catchy riff at the beginning?

[Bob from Brooklyn]

I think 'working backwards' is often a good way to go. Start with a title, put it in the last line of the chorus and then off to the races with verses and possibly a bridge.

[zuzu]

I write melody first almost all the time. Sometimes I can tell the first thing that comes belongs in a chorus, most times it's later, rarely the verse and chorus swap when the lyrics are added. I try not to ask any questions of it as I'm doing it, rather just try to keep the process going and capture all I can.

[Chipotle]

For me it varies from song to song. Sometimes the chorus comes first, sometimes a verse (often the first verse but not always). I also vary between creating lyrics first vs chords/melody first. Heck, sometimes the first thing I have to work with is an idea or title before I have anything else. I recently wrote a song on commission, and it had to be about the power of music and how it brings people together--that was my starting point.

I suppose some songwriters might be consistent and always start creating their songs from the same place, but that's not me.

[ghostnote]

Yes, it varies. In my case, 75% of the time I write the music long before the lyrics, so I don’t know what the song is about for quite some time. I try to tell the story musically first, then put in the words to that story. Putting the chorus first does hit the listener harder, and gets right to the point. Like most people, I have lyrics in notebooks or on scraps of paper that can be used when I need them. I rarely ever record a complete song start-to-finish before moving on - I have many songs that, for example, don’t have drums or keyboards or bass on them yet. I add those at my leisure once a song is well on its way to completion. A couple of weeks ago I had a “bass night”, when I added bass parts to three songs that didn’t have them. I just listened back to those, and one of them is crap and will be deleted. Delete is my favorite button…

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Cecil6243

when writing a song? I seem to do that a lot. Maybe it's common?

Hi Cecil…
As an occasional writer over the past 60+ years of playing/singing I've built songs out of fragments which I've jotted down or recorded and then later assembled.

I'm not a front to back writer. Usually ideas will occur when it's inconvenient (like while driving or practicing guitar). This is where I've called my wife's phone and left a sung or recited 'message', or grabbed my little Zoom H1n and recorded the fragment for later…then back to practicing.

I don't find any single pattern in writing, and since I do not do it for a living (or $$) I feel no need to develop one.

[zuzu]

Originally Posted by zuzu

I write melody first almost all the time. Sometimes I can tell the first thing that comes belongs in a chorus, most times it's later, rarely the verse and chorus swap when the lyrics are added. I try not to ask any questions of it as I'm doing it, rather just try to keep the process going and capture all I can.

So I said all that but just a little while ago I caught one from noodling with a chord progression... verse done, chorus done, add some lyrics and maybe try a bridge or two, and Bob's your uncle...rare for me but it goes to show you don't want to preclude anything and make it a routine...not all the time anyway. Be open!

[jwellsy]

My songs lately have been falling into the sad John Prine genre. I usually first find the words, phrases and stories to describe a feeling. Then clump them into verses and a catchy common denominator chorus is usually pretty obvious. Then I fill in the verses to support different aspects of the emotion in the chorus.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Cecil6243

Charlie,

So what are other powerful ways to launch a song?

I'm guessing one is a catchy riff at the beginning?

It is, indeed. One example I love is in the movie American Hustle. At one point, the Chrisian Bale character puts on a Duke Ellington record, lets it get started, and rapturously blurts, "Who starts a song like that?"

The hook:

With another nod to the Beatles, yes, starting with the hook, a.k.a. catchy riff, is good, like in Day Tripper.

Here's hook first, verse second: Messin' With the Kid. No chorus, but the last line of each verse is the same — a vocal hook.

Here's one that puts the hook first, chorus second, and verse third: Casey Jones. How catchy is that?

The slow burn:

A low, slow opening can also be powerful because it draws people in. Led Zep did that a lot. One writer who, in my humble, was the grand master of the slow opening was Laura Nyro. Check out how she lures us in, takes her sweet time, then wham, slams us with a one-two punch: Eli's Comin'.

And notice how she does a slow outro, too. Takes the song full circle.

And now, the Eli's Comin' challenge: What's the chorus? What's the verse? What are the bridges? Are you sure? Nyro didn't always use standard formats and arrangements. She let her songs go where they wanted. She was also the foremost pioneer of vocal multi-tracking. A monster piano player, too. Myles Davis loved her. Out of fashion now, but she was as good as they've ever gotten.

The cool groove:

Another catchy-riff song starter that's popular for dance music, blues, and R&B is the cool groove that sets up the song's heartbeat, then lets the song ride on top of it, like in the Staples' I'll Take You There. (As you probably noticed, Day Tripper does the same thing. But Harrison's riff isn't a cool groove. It's a hook. They just liked it so much, they used it for the groove, too. No rules, right?)

The moral:

Experiment! Mix it up! Duke Ellington said it best: "If it sounds good, it is good."

[Cobby]

I'll usually start with the verse but I have more of a knack for writing bridges than I do choruses. So a lot of my songs end up as A A B A (verse-bridge or some variant) and don't have choruses at all.

Not as common these days, but I'm still in pretty good company.

[zuzu]

I'm the "bridge guy" as well. Almost all of my collaborations have been writing a bridge for somebody.