Strat Vintage style or 2 point style tremolo?

[Dru Edwards]

So, do you prefer the vintage style 6 screw Fender Strat tremolo or the 2 point one? Assume quality build by both.

I have Strats with both but I don't use the bar so really don't have an opinion which is why the thread. Most people I talk to seem to prefer the 2 point.

[Scotso]

Not to be contentious but why ask if you do not have a pref? I do not have a pref since I trem block strats. But I love the strat.

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by Scotso

Not to be contentious but why ask if you do not have a pref? I do not have a pref since I trem block strats. But I love the strat.

Just looking to start a discussion.

[muscmp]

i have the 2 point but with 4(2 per side) springs on an 89 american standard. it works fine and keeps in tune as long as you don't double dive bomb it. i haven't played the vintage style in many years so i really can't comment on it.


play music!

[Bob Womack]

I've got a two-point American Standard and a G&L S-500 Strat with Leo's Dual-Fulcrum trem and I've gotta say that the Fender is nowhere near as smooth as the G&L Dual-Fulcrum. Best I can tell the Dual-Fulcrum was Leo's take on the Wilkinson Trem. They are very close in feel and operation. It looks to me like the Fender two-point was a later attempt to utilize the Wilkinson and Dual-Fulcrum concept but it doesn't work nearly as well.

G&L


Wilkinson


Of course, you have to wonder my application: I use the vibrato to wobble chords, much like James Calvin Wilsey did on Chris Issac's "Wicked Game." By the way, the G&L Dual Fulcrum is the slickest performer I've seen for that figure right at the top of the song.





Bob

[blue]

I definitely prefer the vintage. If you don't use the bar there are only downsides to the 2point.

Biggest one is string bending. pick up a 2 point trem strat and bend the third string hard but don't pick it. Pick the second string. Everything else goes flat. And you are fighting against that on the string you are bending too!

The advantage of the vintage, if you have it set up flat on the body, is that you can bump up the spring tension, and avoid the problem entirely.

I do have a legacy with a floating 2 point. I have it set up as a "rock" guitar and it performs wonderfully. However, I have a strat shaped object with a vintage trem, and that's the one I set up for blues with heavy strings, high action, and a lot of spring tension.

Yes, you have to really mean it when you use the bar on a guitar set up like that. But all the double stop/steel guitar bends you can do on it make up for that in spades.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I

That is one of the most beautiful melodies I have ever heard.

[pegleghowell]

Vintage is my choice.

[Dru Edwards]

Thanks for your post, Bob. I was wondering how the G&L tremolo stood up against Fender. Do you know if the import G&Ls have a similar tremolo?

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I've got a two-point American Standard and a G&L S-500 Strat with Leo's Dual-Fulcrum trem and I've gotta say that the Fender is nowhere near as smooth as the G&L Dual-Fulcrum. Best I can tell the Dual-Fulcrum was Leo's take on the Wilkinson Trem. They are very close in feel and operation. It looks to me like the Fender two-point was a later attempt to utilize the Wilkinson and Dual-Fulcrum concept but it doesn't work nearly as well.

G&L

<<snippet>>

[Bob Womack]

Last time I checked the American hardware was being used on the imports but that might have changed.

Bob

[Hot Vibrato]

The two point is a better tremolo design if you actually use the bar, however a vintage strat trem can be modified to perform just as well. But in my mind, the main difference is the sting spacing. (well that, and the fact that the American Standard saddles sound terrible)

The vintage spacing is almost too wide. On many vintage Fenders, you can't do much vibrato on the high E or it'll slip over the edge, and likewise, if you're not careful, the low E will slip over the edge when you grab a G chord. I'm a repairman, so when refretting a Fender with a vintage bridge, I keep the fret ends on the upper portion of the neck as vertical as possible to buy the player as much wiggle room as possible. It makes a big difference, and as long as the frets are shaped properly, my vote is for the vintage spacing, which is generally more comfortable for me. And also, the vintage saddles have a much better tone. The offset screws on the American Standard saddles cause some weird issues which result in poor tone, and also the break angle is too shallow, which eventually causes a sitar-like sound.

Incidentally, my main beef with Gibson's electrics is that their spacing is even narrower than Fender's american standard bridges, which are marginally too narrow for my liking anyways. So every time I pick up a Gibson electric, I feel like the strings are too close together for me to play my best. I think Rickenbakers are even narrower still. They look cool, but I can't stand playing them.

[mechanic1908]

Vintage for me, 2 point ,, dunno,, feels weird

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[Taller]

Sold an old American Standard Strat recently. Hadn't played it for years as I fell in love with Fender's Vintage Hot Rod '62 (bought 2 of 'em!).

Before I let it go, of course I sat down and played it for old time's sake. I was surprised how different it sounded (unplugged - just strumming on the couch) than my VHR.

I found that I prefer the tone of the vintage bridge.

[jaybones]

Of my trem equipped strats, all have the vintage.

I float all of mine, and use the wiggle stick a fair amount. No dive bombing (to do that you really need a 'Rose or something similar), but I do accent my solos with pick scream bends, a little wah (sometimes) and add some vibrato.

Also I'll crank back on the arm to bring the note(s) up.

I have tremsetters in a couple of them (the ones that play- I have others that are works in process, and might try a Blade Runner Super V for kicks).