Car Salesmen - OMG

[tbeltrans]

I am very grateful to car salesmen. They changed my life for the better, seriously - no joke.

A friend of mine, back in the days when we could work as software engineers without a college degree was laid off and couldn't find another job because he didn't have a degree. Those old days wee changing rapidly. Anyway, all he could find was a job as a car salesman.

For whatever reason, when I was worried about an upcoming layoff, I could see myself in my mind's eye being stuck as a car salesmen. For me personally, that would be the ultimate career failure. That may not be true for other folks, but it is for me - the bottom of the barrel. Anyway, my friend's experience was incentive enough for me to go immediately back to college, work my butt off and graduate at the top of my class. Graduating from college changed my life, opening doors to companies I could never have considered, and sealing my financial future all the way to now in retirement.

Tony

[aknow]

I bought a new car for my daughter, was a Honda Element. The price was about $23K. After wasting about 1/2 hour of our time I asked what they would take for the car. He says $23K and you'd better move fast because we've been using this for demo's and I think I have someone coming in to get it, don't know when we'll get anymore. I said "How about $18,500" and he smiled and says you're insulting me. I said: "It's a used car, you're insulting us" and walked out. The next day, he called and said the sales mgr. will accept your offer. I said, "You said I needed to hurry, as someone was coming in to buy it, I'll give you $17,500, and I'll pay cash. Puts me on hold, we bought it. And incidentally, the unhealthiest car I've owned. If it's 65 degrees outside, due to chemical outgassing it's 95 degrees inside. My daughter loves it!

[aknow]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

There are cars designed specifically for women? I'm a woman and I've never heard that. Unless those cars are beefy muscle-cars out of Detroit, I'm offended!

Many years ago I wanted to buy a used VW bug. One man had 2 for sale, a 1967 manual transmission and a 1970 automatic. He he was adamant that I would be happier with the 1970 bug, kept pointing out the pretty yellow color, and mentioning that it was newer. I wanted the '67, specifically because it was manual. The engine was a little bigger too. He finally got exasperated and said, "What do you need a stick shift for? You're a girl! Girls like automatics!" I bought the stick shift. He was bitter about it, begrudgingly handed me the pink slip and the keys. I don't know what his problem was (though I have a few ideas). But I loved that little red VW!

You are smart, and the salesman was a caveman. The '67 VW is/was vastly superior to the pos /70 model, ESPECIALLY an automatic. '60's Bugs run forever! Congrats.

[Twelvefret]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Excuse me twelvefret, but that was exactly what we were doing - market research - we went to see a Renault Captur - we drove twenty miles to see one. The guy didn't even offer us the opportunity to sit in one, and certainly couldn't be bothered to research the Renault network to find one suitable.

What you did is not market research. What you did is like going to a music store to look at guitars while expecting the sales person to first know what you want and then be an expert on the model you chose.

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

(Incidentally, I've just looked on Autotrader, and there are 23 cars for sale within our price range, and 21 of them are on Renault forecourts - he cvould have had one shipped down for us to check out (like the Fiat guy did).

How much would it have cost his business to ship a car to his dealership to show a person who had nothing invested?

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

We have autotrader here and can do a certain amount of online research, but you still have to check out the thing in the flesh or steel).

I agree to a point. For example, older Subaru's have a timing belt replacement schedule, some have a head gasket issue, those with a turbo are expensive to replace. This is what you learn from your research and it allows you to discuss with some intelligence with the dealership.

Research tells you what others are paying for the model. This allows you to know if the dealer is quoting you the best price.

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

We knew what we wanted - a 1.2- 1.6ish litre petrol auto with satnav and a look and feel that suited my wife (i.e. the prospective cash buyer). You don't get that online.

There are many cars that would fit within that criteria. He could have taken your money, but that's not what a reputable professional salesperson should do.

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

We walked in and politely told him the model and specs we were seeking.

My wife is an intelligent experienced driver, but she has different criteria to me - her cash, her decision.

That's another thing - she started the dialogue - the salesman always answered to me. Sheesh!

Like I said, you were part of the problem, but not all of the problem.

[Silurian]

I could be wrong, but I'm getting the impression that people go and just 'look' at cars before buying. Most of my time in a car is spent actually moving.

Does anybody test drive them anymore?

[The Bard Rocks]

My recent experiences have been far better than some of what I have been hearing, though I do remember one old fellow who had a hearing problem. Oh, he could hear words just fine, but he could not process them to give an answer that was even closer, much less intelligent. He'd been with the company forever the owners are too nice to just let him go.

But the rest have been decent, though there has not be a one that I could imagine being friends with.

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I'm wondering how these guys can call themselves "salesmen" ?

Me too. I hear stories like this all the time, and not just with car salespeople. And contrary to what others may say, no, you were NOT part of the problem here. Part of my job is sales (not automotive), and I frequently encounter people who have done ZERO research, yet I still go out of my way to help them. That's because not only is it my job, but it's something I take pride in as well. The salesmen you described didn't even begin to start to help, let alone go out of the way. No excuse for that.

Hope your wife eventually gets what she wants from a proper dealership.

[TBman]

We've been leasing cars from the same dealer for about 11 years. The same salesmen are never there when we bring the cars back to get new leases.

[ahorsewithnonam]

Honestly I think this is 99% the problem of the consumer. Why on earth do you make it a long drawn out painful process? I don't get it. I hear family saying the same thing...ugh it took all day long to get this car. Seriously? Then you are to blame in my eyes.

Tell them what you want and the price you are willing to pay. If they can't, you move on. Seriously, buying cars for me has always been a quick and kind of fun practice .

[MikeBmusic]

When we got my wife's Impreza last November - we (meaning I) did online research, looked at dealer inventory online (Subaru is pretty good for that, compared to some dealer website), stopped in at 2 dealers very briefly to look at models (and to confirm they didn't have what we wanted, at that time).
Used to be that any person wandering around a dealer's lot looking at cars would be accosted by a pushy salesman in under 2 minutes, so we didn't wear nice clothes - and never saw a person either time!

Through kbb.com sent inquiries out (the new 2017s were just arriving onshore at the time), and got an email in a week from one dealer.

We headed over there saw the one we were interested in on the lot, went inside, found the salesman. Took the car for a 30 minute test drive (just my wife and I) while they looked at our trade-in - a 2001 Corolla that didn't have a ton of miles (110K) but was pretty much used up - my wife's first new car.

Came back in, the salesman gave us the price, with trade-in, along with their finance deal at the time (2.9%, I think) and we drove out with the new car less than 90 minutes after stepping onto the lot. In fact, I had to go back later with the title of the Corolla - we hadn't planned on it happening that fast!

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam

Honestly I think this is 99% the problem of the consumer. Why on earth do you make it a long drawn out painful process? I don't get it. I hear family saying the same thing...ugh it took all day long to get this car. Seriously? Then you are to blame in my eyes.

Tell them what you want and the price you are willing to pay. If they can't, you move on. Seriously, buying cars for me has always been a quick and kind of fun practice .

I think that when car purchases are viewed as a utility, like electric or water, then the purchase experience might change.

But instead, there is this idea that a car has to come with a gazillion feature options , and from these options come the real profit on the sale.

It's a mechanism for transporting people from point A to point B. It's primary attributes to my thinking should be:
reliable efficient engine, doors and windows that open and close, and a few seats.

every thing else is gravy. the kids really truly do not need a tv screen for the 10 minute ride to the grocery store. or even for the 3 hour ride to grandmas house.

and most of us sure as toot don't require the size of the vehicles we drive in all by ourselves.

and more than anything else, the car does not need to be traded in after three years. Cars can go for 200K miles or more and still serve their base function of transporting humans.

so, with the help of automotive marketing campaigns , the consumer is part of the problem.

[tbeltrans]

Different folks will give cars different priority levels. For me, I want basic transportation that gets me from point A to point B as inexpensively and reliably as possible.

I have never owned a new car, preferring to buy what I can afford, rather than borrowing because I want more than that. I learned long ago to pay myself instead of the bank, so that when it comes time to buy a car, I can afford to do so.

I drive a 2000 Toyota Echo that I purchased used in 2004, for $5000 cash. I am still driving it today and it has never given me problems beyond normal wear. It gets an average of 36 MPG in town and mid 40s on the highway. It has no fancy features, instead being very utilitarian. I take care of making sure my car is maintained regularly, and that contributes to a large degree, the trouble free life it has during the time I own it.

If my wife and I take a road trip of any distance for a week or so, we will rent a car. We can get a decent, very affordable price on a very nice car that we couldn't afford to buy, and if anything goes wrong with the car, it isn't our problem. We also then are not putting the wear and tear on one of our cars.

Finding and buying a car is, for me, a simple thing. Is it affordable (i.e. priced within what I have saved for the purchase)? Does it have a good track record? Does it match my criteria of being dependable and inexpensive to own? Done. I never have my heart set on a specific model, color, etc. I take what is out there that fits my criteria.

When we go to the Toyota place to get our routine maintenance (which I get for less than these fast oil change outfits because Toyota has the 100,000 mile discounts), I will wander through the new car showroom. I see people applying for loans to buy a new car, and I wonder if these people have REALLY thought through the impact of having to make payments for the next 5 years (i.e. staying with a job they might not like because they have these payments on top of rent/mortgage, etc., and other impacts). The average car loan these days is 69.5 months, and over $500 a month. Do we REALLY want to live with that financial burden?

The way I buy cars, there is no debt involved and very little time with a salesperson, making the whole thing easy. Also, there are a lot of years between purchases. It takes time to save up for a car, and (fortunately) at least as long to wear it out.

Tony

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by amyFB

I think that when car purchases are viewed as a utility, like electric or water, then the purchase experience might change.

But instead, there is this idea that a car has to come with a gazillion feature options , and from these options come the real profit on the sale.

It's a mechanism for transporting people from point A to point B. It's primary attributes to my thinking should be:
reliable efficient engine, doors and windows that open and close, and a few seats.

every thing else is gravy. the kids really truly do not need a tv screen for the 10 minute ride to the grocery store. or even for the 3 hour ride to grandmas house.

and most of us sure as toot don't require the size of the vehicles we drive in all by ourselves.

and more than anything else, the car does not need to be traded in after three years. Cars can go for 200K miles or more and still serve their base function of transporting humans.

so, with the help of automotive marketing campaigns , the consumer is part of the problem.

Amy,

You have an H&D and a McKnight in your signature, wouldn't just any utilitarian guitars "make do" ??

Cars can be whatever folks what just like that too, can't they? If you want basic transportation and reliability fine. But if someone else enjoys driving and buys high end cars (like me) that's their money and their choice.

I don't see any "consumer problem" as far as choice, you can find new cars in the low teens, six figures and everything in between. Don't go to a Mercedes dealer if you want basic transportation, and don't go to a Kia dealer if you want a luxury autobahn burner.

We control our own pockets, nobody forces anybody to buy a vehicle/options they don't want, any pressure is self applied.

Nothing wrong without enjoying things you worked hard to be able to afford, and we all have different priorities for how we spend our money. To each their own.......

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

Amy,

You have an H&D and a McKnight in your signature, wouldn't just any utilitarian guitars "make do" ??

Cars can be whatever folks what just like that too, can't they? If you want basic transportation and reliability fine. But if someone else enjoys driving and buys high end cars (like me) that's their money and their choice.

I don't see any "consumer problem" as far as choice, you can find new cars in the low teens, six figures and everything in between. Don't go to a Mercedes dealer if you want basic transportation, and don't go to a Kia dealer if you want a luxury autobahn burner.

We control our own pockets, nobody forces anybody to buy a vehicle/options they don't want, any pressure is self applied.

Nothing wrong without enjoying things you worked hard to be able to afford, and we all have different priorities for how we spend our money. To each their own.......

Interesting comments rmyAddison, but misses my point.

The idea I was proposing is that if cars were utilities with no fancy upgrade options, the time to make the purchase would be reduced.

Because - there is no need to haggle over what I need or don't need, and
Because - there is no need for the sales person to try and convince me I need something that I really can do without.

"consumer problem" ? yes, insofar as the consumer allows themselves to be swayed by marketing hype.

there is a difference between a conscious purchase of a high end item, and allowing your self to be talked into buying a bunch of options that mostly take money from your pocket and don't give back a whole lot.

you'll love driving your high end car and i'll love playing my high end guitar and we'll neither of us regret our choices.

Automotive marketing isn't talking to you and me; they're talking to the rest of the world that is anxious to keep up with the Jones', (as seen in adverts).

[Nyghthawk]

I prefer any industry just put a bloody price on the item you are selling. Period. Cars, guitars, it doesn't matter to me. I am not interested in having to 'research' the given price on a product. Nor do I wish to 'haggle' with some salesperson in order to buy the item I want.

IMHO