Thoughts? Emerald out in sun ~ 20 minutes (80 degrees)

[crnazz]

Just a question. The lower bout of my Artisan x20 was exposed to the sun for about 10-20 minutes today. Outside temperature was 80 degrees F. When I picked it up to play it was significantly out of tune and the action had gotten very low.

I tuned it up and had to adjust the truss rod to get the action back to 3/32nds at the 12th fret low E so it wouldn't buzz. I also noticed a very slight rise in the lower bout off of the bottom of the bridge (where it's shape dips down to a point). I can't remember if it's always that way or not. I just noticed it as I was trying to figure out what happened... but that might be the normal shape of the lower bout surface.

Just curious if this makes sense?
Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks.

[Acousticado]

Did you make the adjustments right away, or did you first allow the guitar acclimatize? Sort of an oxymoron for a CF, but maybe not in this case. This may be one that Sean at Emerald should help you with. You may want to take some pics, including to post them here. I hope your guitar is fine.

[crnazz]

I did let it acclimatize first. It seems fine now that I've adjusted the truss rod but still scratching my head. I emailed Sean - they are on vacation until the middle of August so I imagine it'll be a while before I hear back.
Thanks for your thoughts.

This really surprises me. I've had three Emeralds that I've played in 110 degrees and never had a problem. But, it's a dry heat.

[JimCA]

I think strings out in direct sunlight (1) would get hotter than air temperature and (2) be affected (stretch?) due to extreme heat increase.

[DHart]

Originally Posted by JimCA

I think strings out in direct sunlight (1) would get hotter than air temperature and (2) be affected (stretch?) due to extreme heat increase.

Agree... being in the shade @ 80 degrees is significantly cooler on the instrument than being in the direct sun at 80 degrees air temp, where the surface of the instrument would likely get a lot hotter than 80 degrees over time.

While these guitars are relatively impervious to moderate temp and humidity changes, I wouldn't be surprised if extreme temperature changes might have some effect on them, especially if applied to just a portion of the entire instrument.

[AZLiberty]

I was playing a wooden guitar once at my piano bench. The guitar kept going out of tune. Over and over. I kept re-tuning and at one point touched the lower bout and it was ice cold.

This house had floor vents, and one of the vents was blowing on the bottom of the guitar that hung over the piano bench.

I would postulate that the issue was that only the lower bout (of the Emerald) had heated up from the sun. If the entire guitar was in the sun then it would have expanded uniformly.

[crnazz]

I appreciate the feedback. Is is now several hours later back in the house. It has kept in tune (following my initial truss rod adjustment and re-tuning). Still not sure what happened but I am content now.

Just one remaining question - if an owner of an Emerald can answer. I can't for the life of me remember if there has always been a very slight bowing of the lower bout just below the bridge - at the point where the lower edge of the bridge goes into that point in the middle.

The glare is the area I'm talking about. I really can't capture the actual swell in the picture. It is pretty minimal. Just wondering if that's normal.

[Claytone]

Originally Posted by crnazz

Just a question. The lower bout of my Artisan x20 was exposed to the sun for about 10-20 minutes today. Outside temperature was 80 degrees F. When I picked it up to play it was significantly out of tune and the action had gotten very low.

I tuned it up and had to adjust the truss rod to get the action back to 3/32nds at the 12th fret low E so it wouldn't buzz. I also noticed a very slight rise in the lower bout off of the bottom of the bridge (where it's shape dips down to a point). I can't remember if it's always that way or not. I just noticed it as I was trying to figure out what happened... but that might be the normal shape of the lower bout surface.

Just curious if this makes sense?
Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks.

Here is a partial answer to your question on the "shape" of the lower bout, Crnazz...There is a slight convexness below the bridge & a slight concaveess parallel to the strings...
I remember that several of us took straight edges and compared them a couple of years ago, and Alistair assured us that he designed them that way for top vibration...So yep...that's the way they are designed !!!
Just a guess about the temperature question. I "Froze" my X-20 one night to 19 degrees Fahrenheit, and brought it into the house at normal temperature with no ill effects...I suspect that the heat would have no effect on the tone, so it must be the strings???
However my X-20 has no truss rod though, so that might be a consideration...

[121]

Originally Posted by Claytone

However my X-20 has no truss rod though, so that might be a consideration...

I wasn't aware that Emerald made an X20 with out a truss rod,
is it one of the earlier X20s ?

[Claytone]

Originally Posted by 121

I wasn't aware that Emerald made an X20 with out a truss rod,
is it one of the earlier X20s ?

Yes it is 121...a year or so after I bought her, Alistair started adding a truss rod to all his guitars...It may be an upcharge to order one without a truss rod???
In all this time the neck & intonation have not changed at all...Gotta love that Carbon Fiber!!!

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by 121

I wasn't aware that Emerald made an X20 with out a truss rod,
is it one of the earlier X20s ?

Yes, Claytone's must be an earlier model. Emerald began building all their guitars with truss rods a few years ago.

[Claytone]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Yes, Claytone's must be an earlier model. Emerald began building all their guitars with truss rods a few years ago.

LOL...I beat you to the answer by 2 minutes Acousticado!!! I wonder if Steve's (Doubleneck) Chimaera had truss rods?
If there would be any movement at all, I think it would have happened on his 18 string beauty...

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Claytone

LOL...I beat you to the answer by 2 minutes Acousticado!!! I wonder if Steve's (Doubleneck) Chimaera had truss rods?
If there would be any movement at all, I think it would have happened on his 18 string beauty...

Haha, I should've just let you respond to it!

Maybe I should let Steve reply about his Chimaera...but I won't. His is a 2012 model and doesn't have truss rods. In fact, Steve's was one of the earliest, barely beyond a prototype. I was so smitten with his, and still before the Chimaera was a production guitar, I ordered one fall 2012 and received it early 2013. The guitar has improved in various ways, but without question, the first version was the best balanced in terms of weight where the necks were hollow without truss rods and and Alistair was still using ultra-lightweight Gotoh Stealth tuners. He stopped using them because of failures...likely not robust enough given their max. 44 lbs. of tension.

[crnazz]

Originally Posted by Claytone

Here is a partial answer to your question on the "shape" of the lower bout, Crnazz...There is a slight convexness below the bridge & a slight concaveess parallel to the strings...
I remember that several of us took straight edges and compared them a couple of years ago, and Alistair assured us that he designed them that way for top vibration...So yep...that's the way they are designed !!!
Just a guess about the temperature question. I "Froze" my X-20 one night to 19 degrees Fahrenheit, and brought it into the house at normal temperature with no ill effects...I suspect that the heat would have no effect on the tone, so it must be the strings???
However my X-20 has no truss rod though, so that might be a consideration...

Thanks Claytone - that's the info I was looking for. I really think now that it was just the strings that reacted to the heat. Weird though.