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  #1  
Old 06-25-2017, 07:06 AM
HHP HHP is offline
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Default Mandolins...A Style or F Style?

Wondering about people's preferences and reasons for choosing one or the other.

I like the visuals of an F but, rationally, I think an A will sound and play the same, all things being equal, and will cost around half what an F will.

Probably rather have a high end A with all the bells and whistles than a stripped down F at about the same cost. My current favorite style is probably the two and three point A like Weber offers.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:26 PM
rgregg48 rgregg48 is offline
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If you need to look bluegrass like ol Bill,
You must have an F model,
Otherwise you dont need the 2k strap holder!
Rick
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:27 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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There are people who say they can tell the difference between an F5 (Florentine body with violin like F shaped holes) and an A5 (pear shaped body with F holes). I can hear variations in tone between F5 mandolins and A5 mandolins, but I don't think there is a clearly defined F5 tone that can be differentiated from an A5 tone, and the tonal characteristics inherent to a builder far outweigh the variations that can be attributed to body style.

To put it another way, an Ellis F5 will sound more like an Ellis A5 than it will sound like a Gibson F5. A Gilchrist F5 will sound more like a Gilchrist A5 than it will sound like some other, "insert brand here".

To make the situation even more complicated, what is a "Gibson" tone? I have played many Gibson mandolins and heard even more, and there is much variation even between Gibson F5s. Some are fantastic, some not so much.

Of course, there can be similarities. A 1990's Gibson will sound a lot like a 1990's Flatiron, as they were built side-by-side, more or less.

To your point about the value of an F5 vs. an A5. I think it is a personal decision about how important the looks of an instrument are vs build quality, fit and finish and tone.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:38 PM
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Thankfully for me (financially speaking), I have always had a strong aesthetic preference for A-style mandolins. I like the symmetry, what I think is the more "traditional" styling, and the practical utility of the body style.

Now that I'm almost exclusively a solo player and performer, I'm down to <5% of my playing time on mandolin, and I find my modest c.1965 Harmony Monterey H410 more than meets my needs. Its raw, old-timey voice is ideal for the folksy, Americana stuff I play on mandolin.

Harmony-410-01.JPG Harmony-410-03.JPG
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
There are people who say they can tell the difference between an F5 (Florentine body with violin like F shaped holes) and an A5 (pear shaped body with F holes). I can hear variations in tone between F5 mandolins and A5 mandolins, but I don't think there is a clearly defined F5 tone that can be differentiated from an A5 tone, and the tonal characteristics inherent to a builder far outweigh the variations that can be attributed to body style.

To put it another way, an Ellis F5 will sound more like an Ellis A5 than it will sound like a Gibson F5. A Gilchrist F5 will sound more like a Gilchrist A5 than it will sound like some other, "insert brand here".

To make the situation even more complicated, what is a "Gibson" tone? I have played many Gibson mandolins and heard even more, and there is much variation even between Gibson F5s. Some are fantastic, some not so much.

Of course, there can be similarities. A 1990's Gibson will sound a lot like a 1990's Flatiron, as they were built side-by-side, more or less.

To your point about the value of an F5 vs. an A5. I think it is a personal decision about how important the looks of an instrument are vs build quality, fit and finish and tone.
I agree about builder similarity. Sort of where the caveat "all things being equal" comes into play. Even within builders, the differences can come from the approach to building A's versus F's. You do see more variation in A builds with X bracing and oval sound holes coming onto the mix.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:02 PM
leew3 leew3 is offline
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I'm with Ed in that I feel like I've found the best of both worlds. My A model mandolin with F holes has a great balance of bark and tone and is living proof that you can get a lot for your money in this model.

Just be aware that you'll have to tolerate frequent questions along the lines of 'what is that?' as many people expect to see the F model in a mandolin. It's a conversation starter and I've found many A model fans at jams and live gigs I've played (they usually already know what it is!).
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:00 AM
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I like an A style mando just fine, but my big decision was F hole or round hole. So, I went with both!

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Old 06-26-2017, 10:35 AM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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As someone who is principally a mandolinist, I appreciate all types of mandolins. I have played F5s and A5s on stage and in jams. I have gone through a Gibson F5, a June A5, a June F5, an Ellis A5 and now I play a Northfield F5. I have been slowly refining both the sound and look that I want in a stage mandolin, because whether I like it or not, I am judged, at least partially, by appearances and carry the weight of audience expectation every time I step on stage.

I think that most casual audience members couldn't care less what I play and wouldn't know a Gibson from a Gilchrist from a Kentucky. But bluegrass audiences are not your typical audience. Bluegrass is a uniquely participatory music, and many folks in a bluegrass audience play an instrument, at least casually. There is, I think, some expectation that a bluegrass mandolin player play an F5 and specifically a Gibson F5. But I haven't found a Gibson that does what I want. I gravitate to slightly deeper bodied mandolins, and that is why I like my Northfield "Big Mon" so much.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:22 PM
cu4life7 cu4life7 is offline
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I too have only owned A-Style mandolins, originally because of cost of ownership and then because I also prefer the symmetry of the A style. I do think 95% of the claims made for the F-Style are simply confirmation bias. We want them to sound better, and so they do sound better. I love the way that they look and would love to own one someday, but I absolutely love my Collings Oval Hole and wouldn't give it up for a scroll. Check out Mandolin Cafe forum, they have argued this point into the ground.

If I were buying an F, I would be looking at Northfield. I have played a few, and they are the best value in the mandolin world in my opinion.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:33 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgregg48 View Post
If you need to look bluegrass like ol Bill,
You must have an F model,
Otherwise you dont need the 2k strap holder!
Rick
Tell that to Tim O'Brien or Jody Stecher!

I have an F-5 by Lebeda (2005) of which I am very fond.

I agree that the scroll doesn't really affect the sound noticeably but it sure looks great, and helps the balance wonderfully.
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  #11  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cu4life7 View Post
...snip... I do think 95% of the claims made for the F-Style are simply confirmation bias. We want them to sound better, and so they do sound better....snip...
Another factor that goes into F5 mandolins being considered superior is the fact that every builder/producer MUST make their flagship mandolin an F5 because that's what the market demands. Hence, his or her "best" mandolin is very likely to be that flagship F5.
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Old 06-26-2017, 01:23 PM
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Anyone will tell you that the scroll is unnecessary for good tone regardless of what genre you play. If you're just getting into mandolin and insist on an F style you are wasting money. That said, I love the scroll, and have willingly paid extra for it on four instruments I still play. I only have one A model - an A4 10 string mandola.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:29 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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I would love to take 10 F5s and 10 A5s from a single builder and see if I could accurately identify the F5s from the A5s by sound alone. My assumption is that I couldn't, but it would be fascinating to try.
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:25 PM
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I like some of the other shapes. Really like the two point and three point models. Weber does a 3 point with a florentine scroll headstock that looks very good. Some are offering what they call a "C" or "C#" which has an open cutaway type horn in place of the scroll. Looks like its patterned after my old Harmony Batwing.
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:26 PM
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I like some of the other shapes. Really like the two point and three point models. Weber does a 3 point with a florentine scroll headstock that looks very good. Some are offering what they call a "C" or "C#" which has an open cutaway type horn in place of the scroll. Looks like its patterned after my old Harmony Batwing.

Do seem to see a lot of "F"'s with broken scrolls on the headstock.
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