Homeless Veterans

[viccortes285]

I am a Nam Marine and I have brought food for some around the VA hospital. On the street I won't stop. To me no one in this Country should be hungry or homeless.

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

If you consider yourself a moral human being and cannot give a single dollar to a homeless person, or a person in need, then you need to rethink your ethics.

And if they do need it for drugs or drink, be happy they won't need to break into your car that night to get money.

Please, think Charity. You may one day be there yourself. We are all one day away from homelessness. Mental illness, loss of family to get you out of the jam, mortage foreclosure due to sudden job loss. You are not immune. Pay it forward.

That is all.

I don't think the issue with most people in this thread is that they don't want to part with a dollar, but they're saying they want to be sure that it's actually being used for something truly needed (not alcohol or drugs, which will only make things worse). I think that's a very legitimate concern, and not something that should call their ethics into question.

[SMan]

Originally Posted by jhmulkey

I don't think the issue with most people in this thread is that they don't want to part with a dollar, but they're saying they want to be sure that it's actually being used for something truly needed (not alcohol or drugs, which will only make things worse). I think that's a very legitimate concern, and not something that should call their ethics into question.

Agreed....

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

If you consider yourself a moral human being and cannot give a single dollar to a homeless person, or a person in need, then you need to rethink your ethics.

And if they do need it for drugs or drink, be happy they won't need to break into your car that night to get money.

Please, think Charity. You may one day be there yourself. We are all one day away from homelessness. Mental illness, loss of family to get you out of the jam, mortage foreclosure due to sudden job loss. You are not immune. Pay it forward.

That is all.

I would think one can be a moral person and yet make what in the final analysis is a heartless choice for not having thought it through with all the facts at hand.

One way to illustrate my point is to consider the case of a victim of epilepsy. After medication ceased to prevent debilitating seizures, brain surgery became the only option but exercising that option compromised the region of the patient's brain that reigns in urges and the patient, once a person of notable self-discipline, became particularly susceptible to addiction. Would any of us, knowing his medical history fail to cough up a dollar if we found him begging in the streets? Why should it be any different for any needy addict in indigent circumstances? Whether as a result of surgery, injury or a roll of the genetic dice an addict can’t help himself. Considering that, most people would agree that failing to help would be unkind.

[Denny B]

I do not give cash to panhandlers in my home area...most of them are well known for working the circuit for years, and far too many have been photo'd getting in nice vehicles...pushing full shopping carts around at Krogers and paying with a State debit card...although my favorite guy is the "homeless" local legend who was video'd at WalMart purchasing a 52" TV...and yes, he's still out there scamming people who aren't hip to him...

That being said, I contribute to responsible local charities and churches, donate to food & clothing drives, and especially the yearly ones to make sure kids starting school have the supplies and clothing needed...Christmas is a given with the Salvation Army and local merchant's fundraisers for clothes and gifts for kids...

My morals and ethics are just fine and not in need of approval from others...

[cotten]

Herb, yes, I would "fail to cough up a dollar," and here's why. It's not the heartlessness you might suppose. Quite the opposite in fact. (Quoted from earlier in this thread.)

cotten

Originally Posted by cotten

I am a minister who has helped the homeless, including veterans, in multiple ways for a long time. Really helping takes a commitment, not cash. Cash often hurts more than helps. Here are some possibilities:

• treat the homeless with love and respect, as a person worth knowing, not a problem to be "solved"
• help take care of immediate needs first, but only in ways that actually help. Don't give $5, pay for a room in a trusted facility with whom you have established an ongoing relationship.
• Take a homeless person to eat, or perhaps meet him/her at a local restaurant. Be very wise here - do not open yourself to attack or worse!
• Try to get this person into a temporary shelter; find out his/her job skills, or if more appropriate, job training.
• Realize that this might mean helping with clothes, etc.
• Help this person reconnect - perhaps with current new friends, or perhaps with positive-influence friends or family from the past. This can get complicated in a hurry, so it's wise to have other competent helpers involved.

See what I mean? Commitment, not cash. Too often, cash is used for things that add to the problems. I've seen it more times than I can count.

cotten

[Wozer]

Originally Posted by Nyghthawk

I worked in downtown Austin for several years. There were a lot of homeless there (bet there still is). I gave them pocket change on a regular basis. It is not up to me to decide whether they are veterans or not, or an addict or not. Just human and destitute.

I don't buy the "drives a nice car" myth. The guy with the yellowed fingernails, straggly hair, torn and dirty clothes, and a wild look in his/her eyes did not "drive a nice car" to get there or to leave.

You must have a different breed of homeless than I saw.

there are more now...downtown has become a place to be wary if you are walking around and don't want to have issues with the homeless.

I've seen "homeless" people being ferried around in nice cars/vans as part and wonder just exactly what that implies...never seen one drive off in a nice car though...I HAVE seen very nice cars at the food stamp center though, with people having current generation smart phones (I was once on food stamps during a period of unemployment). my take on that was abuse of the system, and I'll stand by that assessment...

either way, help if you want, don't if you don't.

[Mr. Jelly]

My sister had a rough stretch once and needed a car to get a job etc. So we all helped her. Some would say she abused the system.

[jpd]

............They live an isolated existence. It stretches from freeway to city curb. More arrive each year. Soon, the cities will be forced to confront the issue of homelessness with action- compassionate action

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by Wozer

...I HAVE seen very nice cars at the food stamp center though, with people having current generation smart phones (I was once on food stamps during a period of unemployment). my take on that was abuse of the system, and I'll stand by that assessment...

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

My sister had a rough stretch once and needed a car to get a job etc. So we all helped her. Some would say she abused the system.

If you were alluding to Wozer's comment, I don't quite see how those two situations are comparable. Needing a utilitarian car and phone are one thing; needing a "very nice" car and "very nice" phone are quite another. I don't have a very nice car right now, but I do have a very nice phone. I can tell you for sure I would sell it and buy a cheapo were I in a rough stretch. It's not like a priceless possession that can't be bought again once times are better.

[RP]

I don't give to panhandlers because I don't want to reinforce that behavior. I also don't want to get into the kind of head games that are being discussed in this thread. Is he/she a vet or isn't he? Is he/she really homeless or just lazy? Does he/she buy drugs and alcohol with the handouts? How come they can afford cigarettes but not food? How do they feed the dogs that many of them have, ostensibly to pull at our heartstrings???

I once got into an verbal altercation with a seeming homeless person on Charlottesville's Downtown Mall where the ACLU went to court to actually safeguard their right to panhandle http://www.c-ville.com/begging-to-di.../#.WZuHRK2ZMmo ; I kid you not. However free meals are given out at The Haven http://www.thehaven.org on the Downtown Mall as well as other homeless services. So when this guy disturbed my solitude and came up to me to beg money (a no-no based on the ACLU case) and acting really friendly like we were long lost buddies, I told him he could go to The Haven for something to eat. He gave me some "Yeh but.." answer as to why he couldn't. I then asked where he got the money for his cigarettes, and he told me bummed them. Well, I said, go bum a hot dog....

I do donate lots of stuff to Goodwill where one can procure assistance with acquiring work skills and jobs as well as inexpensive clothes and household items. I'm largely a behaviorist with such things and feel that behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur. Call me what you want, but I don't give any money to those on street corners.....

[Herb Hunter]

I hope I never become so cynical as to believe anyone could be so lazy as to prefer the homeless street life to the amount of work necessary to afford room and board. People are homeless because they cannot cope with their problems.

[aknow]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I would think one can be a moral person and yet make what in the final analysis is a heartless choice for not having thought it through with all the facts at hand.

One way to illustrate my point is to consider the case of a victim of epilepsy. After medication ceased to prevent debilitating seizures, brain surgery became the only option but exercising that option compromised the region of the patient's brain that reigns in urges and the patient, once a person of notable self-discipline, became particularly susceptible to addiction. Would any of us, knowing his medical history fail to cough up a dollar if we found him begging in the streets? Why should it be any different for any needy addict in indigent circumstances? Whether as a result of surgery, injury or a roll of the genetic dice an addict can’t help himself. Considering that, most people would agree that failing to help would be unkind.

Your point is a bit extreme, and I completely agree.

[aknow]

Originally Posted by RP

I don't give to panhandlers because I don't want to reinforce that behavior. I also don't want to get into the kind of head games that are being discussed in this thread. Is he/she a vet or isn't he? Is he/she really homeless or just lazy? Does he/she buy drugs and alcohol with the handouts? How come they can afford cigarettes but not food? How do they feed the dogs that many of them have, ostensibly to pull at our heartstrings???

I once got into an verbal altercation with a seeming homeless person on Charlottesville's Downtown Mall where the ACLU went to court to actually safeguard their right to panhandle http://www.c-ville.com/begging-to-di.../#.WZuHRK2ZMmo ; I kid you not. However free meals are given out at The Haven http://www.thehaven.org on the Downtown Mall as well as other homeless services. So when this guy disturbed my solitude and came up to me to beg money (a no-no according based on the ACLU case) after acting friendly like we were long lost buddies, I told him he could go to The Haven for something to eat. He gave me some "Yeh but.." answer as to why he couldn't. I then asked where he got the money for his cigarettes, and he told me bummed them. Well, I said, go bum a hot dog....

I do donate lots of stuff to Goodwill where one can procure assistance with acquiring work skills and jobs as well as inexpensive clothes and household items. Call me what you want, but I don't give any money to those on street corners with their signs and their cigarettes.....

In the mid to late '80's my chiropractic office was in downtown Santa Monica, Ca. They legalized homelessness and ruined our 4 block square piece of paradise. I don't mind walking through urine, but explaining a syringe hanging out of someone's arm, passing out to your 6 year old child? And, it was completely unnecessary ..... there were/are so many vacant open buildings where simple food bank, shelter facilities could be employed.....but no, we're too civilized for that.

[Mr. Jelly]

I thought of this thread today when I was at the redemption center. That's where we take old used cardboard, paper and plastic to be recycled. I started talking to the guy that was diving in the plastic dumpster. He even bought a light to strap to his cap so he could see better. He was telling me how much competition he has now days. He sees them around because they work the downtown area. He had a three wheeled bike with a trailer. He was set up. These guys, though they look homeless, are retired and looking for extra income. That reminded me of a guy that we have where I live. We have a large park across the street from where I live and when I used to go to work early I'd see a guy going through the garbage cans every morning. We'd wave at each other. He'd take his bag of cans and climb into a pickup the was newer than what I was driving.