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Old 01-23-2017, 01:39 PM
Nailpicker Nailpicker is offline
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Default Bigsbys and Gretsch bridges

From things I've read it seems to me that many players are as drawn to Bigsbys because they "look cool" than simply as a functional tool. From my experience I very, very rarely use mine. And I've noticed that many players IMO really simply don't use them well. Too many wack away at those handles rather than using them in a minimal, graceful way, as a subtle accent. Given that they make it more clumsy to change strings and I rarely use mine, I'd as soon have a regular Gretsch G cutout tail piece.

On another note, I wonder how Gretsch determines whether to use the rocking bar, the space-o-matic or the adjust-0-matic bridges. If the adjust-o-matic allows for fine tuning intonation, then shouldn't all their guitars have that feature. And does that mean that guitars with rocking bar or space o matic bridges have intonation issues that are difficult to adjust? Instead it seems more of their higher end models have either the rocking bar or space-o-matic bridges. I've seen 6120s with any one of those three bridge types. Further there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to whether or not they employ a pinned bridge.

I'd be interested to hear comments.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:36 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Lifelong (55 years worth) Gretsch fan here - I'll try to straighten this out to the best of my ability (YMMV):
  • Rocking-bar bridge: period-correct for many '50s/60s Bigsby-equipped models (especially the Chet Atkins line), usually straight except for some very early "zig-zag" compensated versions; fraught with intonation problems, scrapped by many players in favor of Gibson-style TOM's back in the day and only revived for the MIJ Professional Series in the interest of authenticity
  • Space-Control bridge: replaced the Melita bridge (an early TOM-style) circa 1958, it allowed for not only string-to-string spacing adjustment for finger/pick-style playing (probably at the instigation of Chet Atkins) but, if sufficiently lubricated, a certain amount of roller action when the Bigsby was used; also extremely difficult to intonate but revived for historic reasons, and curiously enough fitted to non-Bigsby models (like the G-tailpiece Double Annies) as well
  • Adjust-o-Matic/pinned bridge: relatively recent developments in the interest of practical utility, allows for individual string intonation as well as (the highly questionable practice of) removing all the strings when restringing, without the need to reset the bridge base position
  • Vibramate Spoiler: not an OEM Gretsch part but the answer to your (and my) Bigsby restringing problems - I'm going to be ordering one for my 5622T:
http://www.vibramate.com/vibramate-string-spoiler.php
Hope this clears things up...
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:17 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
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I put a Bigsby on my Samick Greg Bennett Royale semi and my Luthier friend said that I needed to change the bridge also. (Existing Tune-O-Matic Gibson style bridge to a roller bridge instead). Reminds me that I need to dig that guitar out and play it.

Sorry about not being able to help out with your Gretsch enquiries.

Last edited by Steel and wood; 01-23-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:38 PM
Nailpicker Nailpicker is offline
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I was thinking and hoping you'd post a reply Steve.

So if I hear you correctly, the rocking bar and space control bridges are mostly for historic correctness? Yet, it seems that they use these mostly on their high end models. I'd think that sound would supercede "historic correctness." But that's just me

Re pinned bridges; I can't imagine why all bridges shouldn't/wouldn't be pinned for convenience if nothing else. I read that years ago Chet Atkins and Paul Yandell pinned their bridges themselves, something I'm considering doing on my 6120.

Something that annoys me with my adjustomatic bridge is that at random I get various low level rattling buzzes that clearly emanate from the bridge. Usually just one or two different strings on different days. Sometimes no buzzes at all. They come and go I think with changes in weather/humidity despite the fact that I am conscientious about keeping all my guitars as stable as possible.

I've heard about the Vibramates, but have not gotten around to getting one yet, in part I think because in the back of my mind I think about replacing that Bigsby with the metal G tail piece. What are your thoughts about what I see as the prevalent misuse of Bigsbys?


Here's kind of an interesting web page you may be aware of. It's from when Paul Y. was still alive. It's kind of long and sometimes it's a bit repetitive, but I found a lot of the info interesting nonetheless.
http://www.studio9kc.co.uk/paul/paul..._questions.pdf
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Old 01-23-2017, 03:43 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailpicker View Post
From things I've read it seems to me that many players are as drawn to Bigsbys because they "look cool" than simply as a functional tool. From my experience I very, very rarely use mine. And I've noticed that many players IMO really simply don't use them well. Too many wack away at those handles rather than using them in a minimal, graceful way, as a subtle accent. Given that they make it more clumsy to change strings and I rarely use mine, I'd as soon have a regular Gretsch G cutout tail piece.
I'd say the conflation of "looks cool" and "functional tool" is a widespread human phenomenon, so I'm not sure the Bigsby is a special case there.

I once had a fairly strong prejudice myself against vibrato bridges, but I had strong non-arthritic fingers back then too. Now I don't mind the help. Use of vibrato bridges is deeply ingrained in a lot the electric guitar vocabulary. I got around that in my "no whammy bar for me" days with multistring bends and pre-bends and just grabbing the body and the neck of my Telecaster and giving it a good wiggle (cue acoustic guitar players wincing at the thought). Now I figure a vibrato bridge may be worth the price of some tuning stability issues and complexity.

Beside just random equipment fad-dom, I suspect aging players and the revival of styles where vibrato style multistring dips and wavers has also increased the popularity of the Bigsby.

Roller bridges seem like a good idea; but if the break angle is not to sharp, a TuneOMatic style bridge can work. I now have two Bigsby equipped Telecasters using Graphtech saddles and find they're slick enough.
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Old 01-23-2017, 05:09 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailpicker View Post
...So if I hear you correctly, the rocking bar and space control bridges are mostly for historic correctness? Yet, it seems that they use these mostly on their high end models. I'd think that sound would supersede "historic correctness"...

Re pinned bridges: I can't imagine why all bridges shouldn't/wouldn't be pinned for convenience if nothing else. I read that years ago Chet Atkins and Paul Yandell pinned their bridges themselves, something I'm considering doing on my 6120.

Something that annoys me with my adjustomatic bridge is that at random I get various low level rattling buzzes that clearly emanate from the bridge. Usually just one or two different strings on different days. Sometimes no buzzes at all. They come and go I think with changes in weather/humidity despite the fact that I am conscientious about keeping all my guitars as stable as possible.

I've heard about the Vibramates, but have not gotten around to getting one yet, in part I think because in the back of my mind I think about replacing that Bigsby with the metal G tail piece. What are your thoughts about what I see as the prevalent misuse of Bigsbys?
In order:
  • To some extent the historic correctness of these instruments is an integral part of their signature sound - a free-floating bar tailpiece is going to lend a slightly different tonality to the acoustic response (which is then translated into amplified tone) than a solidly-anchored TOM-type, and some players will strongly favor one over the other; personally, I've had a free-floating TOM on my '64 Double Annie for over 40 years - got sick and tired of not being able to play in tune with the OEM Space Control bridge - and my pinned Adjust-o-Matic bridge 5622T sounds just like a Gretsch should, but I can understand the desire among some aficionados to have things as close to Brooklyn-original as possible...
  • I get those once-in-a-while buzzes/rattles from my LP as well as my Gretsch, also used to get them from my SG - giving the offending saddle(s) a little push forward/rearward with the fingers (not enough to seriously disturb intonation) usually takes care of things for me...
  • I look at Bigsby use in much the same way as consumption of a fine cask-strength single malt: great when partaken in moderation and with respect to its finer qualities, but never meant to be abused and disastrous if overdone; FYI only my 5622T has a Bigsby and, as with the rare factory-original Tone Twister on my '64, I only use it within its original parameters, to add an occasional subtle accent...
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:51 PM
Eric_M Eric_M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailpicker View Post
What are your thoughts about what I see as the prevalent misuse of Bigsbys?
Any examples of good Bigsby use (or bad)?

Been considering the Vibramate for my Bigsby but actually think I'm going to go with this:

Callaham Upgraded Main String Shaft for Bigsby Vibratos

Some of the newer Gretsches have Bigsbys with a similar design.
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:41 PM
Nailpicker Nailpicker is offline
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I think that Callaham looks more appealing, less bulky than the Vibramate.
Thanks.

Yes some of the newer Gretsch' do have a similar design. My 6120am is from 2016 and doesn't. I don't understand why they wouldn't put this new design on all their models since some of their advertisements concede that the new design is better in terms of convenient stringability.
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