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Old 01-13-2017, 01:35 AM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Default SCN to Vintage Noiseless upgrade?

I have an American Deluxe Stratocaster from about 2010 that I really like. It has a great transparent amber finish on the body, abalone position dot inlays, top of the line hardware, great overall build quality, plays like a monster...pretty close to top of the Strat line for that year.

The guitar has the Samarium Cobalt Noiseless pickups that were state of the art at that time, along with the S2 switching system that adds an additional 5 tone options. The pups sound great in a live situation and the noiseless feature is SO nice to have on stage after struggling with noisy Strat pickups for decades. The only problem is that the pickups are a bit sterile sounding on their own. They have a decent strat spank and sheen to them and sound great at high volume but they lack some of the mojo of a good set of Fender single coils.

My other strat has Custom Shop Texas Specials on it and these really get the punchy/overwound strat mojo, ala Hendrix, Blackmore, SRV, et al...only problem is that they have a volume limitation, beyond which they're quite difficult to control, being noisy, squeal-y, somewhat microphonic. I am looking, of course, for the best of both worlds.

So...how about later generations of Fender's noiseless pups? Have they really improved these? Has anyone here upgraded from the older SCNs to newer noiseless pups? In particular, what about the Vintage Noiseless; I've heard that Jeff Beck is now using these...are these in the ballpark of the true 'overwound' vintage single coils, something like the Texas Specials, sans noise? Incidentally, I also really like the Tex-Mex Tele pups on my Nashville Tele...another take on 'overwound-vintage' and equally tricky to manage at higher volume.

I'm considering whether it might be worthwhile to step up from the SCNs and swap them out. They really aren't bad pickups and I especially LOVE how quiet they are, but I'm always looking to improve...inveterate tone-tweaker here.
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2017, 08:51 AM
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Gutch Gutch is offline
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I have three Strats in the stable -- One with SCNs and the mid-boost/TBX ("Clapton") mod, one with Lace Hot Golds and the Clapton mod, and a third with Custom Shop 69's and standard wiring.

I find the SCNs are fine but definitely warmer than the Hot Golds. I have to dime the TBX tone control when engaging the mid-boost on the SCNs to get the same clarity of the Hot Golds in the center detent position and mid boost engaged. That being said, the SCNs are easier to get a nice jazzy tone when playing clean as compared to the Lace Hot Golds. Conversely, the Hot Golds are quick to give me the classic 80's Strat sound. Really two completely different tones, but they are both quite useful.

The current Clapton Signature Strat also features the Vintage Noiseless pickups. I've also toyed with the idea of swapping out the SCNs with them to see if they can give me the best of both worlds, but haven't gotten around to it. I'd be curious to hear your reaction to them if you decide to give them a shot!

Btw, I LOVE the CS 69's pickups -- They sound great and I don't have a problem with noise. I think the key here is to use a good quality isolated output power supply on your pedal board (I use a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2) and watch for ground loops.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:55 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Solutions:
  • The SCN's sound great in a live situation - if it ain't broke don't fix it, and keep this as your balls-to-the-wall rocker...
  • Jimi had no problem with the noise - either get a good shielding job or learn how to work around it...
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:09 AM
Eric_M Eric_M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
So...how about later generations of Fender's noiseless pups? Have they really improved these? Has anyone here upgraded from the older SCNs to newer noiseless pups? In particular, what about the Vintage Noiseless; I've heard that Jeff Beck is now using these...
...
I'm considering whether it might be worthwhile to step up from the SCNs and swap them out. ...
Actually the Vintage Noiseless and Hot Noiseless pickups (Beck's signature model has Hot Noiseless but his No. 1 apparently has one-off Suhr-designed pickups) preceded the SCNs. I don't believe the latest generation of Fender's noiseless Strat pickups (as seen on the American Elite series) are available as aftermarket parts.

Don't know if you're open to non-Fender, but DiMarzio's Area series get mostly positive reviews. I had an earlier set of Kinmans that I thought were pretty good. The new Mojotone noiseless pickups sound pretty good in YouTube clips. If you don't mind a nontraditional look, I like the Fralin split-blade in my parts Tele.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:13 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
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I don't know a lot about noiseless pickups (I've got Custom Shop 54's in the bridge and neck positions and a Seymour Duncan in the middle position of my Stratocaster), but like Eric said, my Luthier friend recommends Kinman pickups as being just about the best. (Authentic Stratocaster tones without the noise).
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:16 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions...I've heard of a few of these. I keep seeing the split-blade Fralins advertised and found that option intriguing. I'll have to research those...the Kinmans and the DiMarzio Area pups keep coming up as well.

I wonder if there are any special wiring concerns/requirements, with the S2 switching, added capacitors, etc. One thing I liked about the Fender options is that they are mostly available as assembled pickguards that you can just drop in and solder the ground strap and jack...done!
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Last edited by maxtheaxe; 01-17-2017 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:02 AM
s2y s2y is offline
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I have the original Noiseless pickups in my Stambaugh Nashville B-Bender guitar. Through my Carr Rambler, they sound killer.

I'm looking at ordering a noiseless Strat in the not so distance future. My house sounds fine with single coils, but there's a particular venue that makes single coils sound like a beehive. I saw Eric Johnson and I could tell he was starting to get a little frustrated. I would have thought he should have one guitar with noiseless coils for an event like that. I'm leaning towards DiMarzio area pickups at the moment.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:18 PM
Eric_M Eric_M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
I wonder if there are any special wiring concerns/requirements, with the S2 switching, added capacitors, etc. One thing I liked about the fender optins is that they are mostly available as assembled pickguards that you can just drop in and solder the ground strap and jack...done!
Good point. Pickup manufacturers don't follow a standard color code for wiring (other than white=hot, black=ground) so it might not be a simple matter of swapping one connection for another.

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Originally Posted by s2y View Post
... but there's a particular venue that makes single coils sound like a beehive. I saw Eric Johnson and I could tell he was starting to get a little frustrated. I would have thought he should have one guitar with noiseless coils for an event like that. I'm leaning towards DiMarzio area pickups at the moment.
Funny thing about that; he often puts a DiMarzio HS in the bridge position, which is an older hum-canceling design, but he wires it up like a single coil, so it still buzzes ... If he ever goes with noiseless pickups, it will make some manufacturer very, very happy.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:46 PM
guitararmy guitararmy is offline
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I have some DiMarzio Area pu's in a Tex-Mex strat. Very fat, rich and quiet.
Less sparkle but very musical.
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:53 PM
s2y s2y is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_M View Post
Funny thing about that; he often puts a DiMarzio HS in the bridge position, which is an older hum-canceling design, but he wires it up like a single coil, so it still buzzes ... If he ever goes with noiseless pickups, it will make some manufacturer very, very happy.
Never knew he did that. Odd that he's not using it "properly". I can see how being so tied to Fender and his signature model might be some red tape.

I have only seen EJ and Andy McKee there. Not sure if the power is dirty enough that noiseless pickups will fix that. The guy who would know was also the last guy to fire me from a band, so I'm not exactly eager to speak to him.
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Old 01-17-2017, 01:32 AM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Yeah, those electrically noisy venues are almost the rule rather than the exception, but some are worse than others. There's one in particular in my area that has a bunch of neon beer signs and whatnot...the Deluxe is the only guitar I own that is quiet there, including the two with humbuckers (PRS Studio and Ibanez Artist)...the rest are all but unusable. I've tried turning a bunch of their signs off and it doesn't seem to help.

I think some of these places had their electrical systems installed by some buddy or relative that lost a bet with the owners, and in general, a lot of places that have live music (if you're lucky enough to find one) do it as an afterthought...the place was never designed or intended to have a live band with a full PA, multiple backline amps, PAR lights...

It even gets dangerous...I've been zapped in the mouth by my vocal mike while touching my guitar more than once. Guys have bought it that way! I had another gig once where the AC supply for the stage was on the same leg as their kitchen! Middle of the second set the breaker tripped and everything went black...not something I would care to repeat too often, given the amount of digital gear in our racks. Fortunately, most of that stuff is plugged into a rackmount AC conditioner that stages power-down.

I just need at least two guitars that are reliably silent for venues like that...one for standard tuning/trem, one for open tunings/slide. I usually use either the Tele or the Artist for open tunings. I can certainly get by fine with the Deluxe as it is...but it would be nice to have something that sounds like the Texas Specials but is dead silent...dare to dream
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Old 01-17-2017, 06:14 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
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If it was me, I would probably just use the "in between" pickup options on your Stratocaster which mostly cancels out the hum.
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:45 AM
Eric_M Eric_M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
It even gets dangerous...I've been zapped in the mouth by my vocal mike while touching my guitar more than once.
Yep; happened to me enough that for a while I was using a guitar with EMGs as my main axe. No danger of that happening. The tone got old after awhile...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel and wood View Post
If it was me, I would probably just use the "in between" pickup options on your Stratocaster which mostly cancels out the hum.
That certainly works, but for me it was always weird to basically be down to two sounds in those situations where buzz is a problem. It's all a tradeoff in one way or another. Lately I've been thinking that noiseless pickups are the better choice for me. I'm interested in those noise canceling backplates too but that's an expensive solution. Though if one is happy with a guitar's existing single coils, it's about the same price as buying new pickups.
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