Collings CJ SS or Gibson J-45 TV

[Glennwillow]

Here is Carl Miner flat picking a Collings CJ35:


And here is Carl Miner flat picking the same tune on a Gibson AJ:


There is a big difference in the sound. The Gibson AJ does not sound like a J45, of course. And the Collings CJ doesn't sound like the AJ, either.

I hope these videos might be helpful.

- Glenn

[hw2nw]

If you want the J45 thing but like the response and a little extra "zing" that the Collings tend to have up top I'd check out the J45 "Vintage" from 2016 to 2017. Banner logo, baked Adi top (hence your "zing"), beautifully made.

Gibson's making great guitars right now in Bozeman, and though this forum rags on them I think their build quality is better than some boutiques right now.

Mine sounded like a cannon, and though not woody-dry it has everything you love about mahogany dreads. I only traded it to acquire a vintage piece.

[scriv58]

i agree about the 2016 j45 vintage- next week will be 6 months i've had mine, and it is really great. Also i have already seen used ones $1000-1500 cheaper than i paid for mine.
If you want the Gibson sound, buy a Gibson!

[Mking]

Originally Posted by Quake17

Not a direct comparison but I have a Collings CJ (Mahogany/Adirondack) and a Gibson Southern Jumbo True Vintage (Mahogany/Sitka). The Collings is not short scale.

I don't find a lot of similarity in the sounds. I think Collings went after the aestethic of the Gibbys but kept their unique, focused sort of sound. The Collings is louder and flat picks really well. I think the SJ is more of a great strumming guitar. I really like them both as I've become much more fond of mahogany the past few years.

I think in true Gibson fashion, there is a mix of Sitka and Adirondack tops in the J-45 TV line as well.

I have a wonderful sounding 2007 Gibson J-45 TV and that was the last year for Sitka tops. They then switched to Adi tops. My Sitka top guitar is fantastic sounding.

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by ataylor

The Collings that comes closest to the iconic Gibson slope shoulder dreadnought/jumbo in sound and look is their CJ35 model.

I'll echo the suggestions to look at some of the builders named if you want something along the lines of the Collings but firmly in the vintage Gibson tonal and aesthetic palette. I'll personally vouch for Fairbanks -- Dale makes really great guitars that nail the old Gibson look and sound.

As for Gibson, I wouldn't rule out a standard J-45. Some of the better J-45s I've played were humble standard models. I particularly liked the ones from 8-10 years ago that had the 1950s style gold block headstock decal, white button tuners, and the orange label. I though those were built really light and just looked and sounded the part.

The new ones with the super thick pickguards, giant Grover tuners, and pearl headstock logos just don't do it for me based on the handful I've played. I find I like the J-35 and J-15 a little bit better as they seem to be built and braced a little lighter compared to the current J-45. I could be wrong.

Regardless -- can't go wrong with a good slope shoulder dreadnought! Lots of good options out there.

CJ35 is Collings interpretation of the vintage Gibson J-35 which at the time Collings introduced it was not available as a reissue from Gibson. Gibson seemed to have responded by reissuing the J-35. With it's lighter built construction and open back tuners, the modern Gibson J-35 is the one to really A-B against the Collings, it's not better than a J-45, just a different sound. Less mid-range focused, still has the distinct Gibson clang but with the J-35 bracing pattern it has just a bit more overtones.

The best J-45's deliver the mid-range but also manage to squeeze a lot of dynamics into that mid-range. You can't seem to get that from any other builder. I think the closest two would be Eastman E10SS and the new Taylor 510 shows promise in the on-line clips I've heard.

A lot boutique builders just aren't building mid-range focused dreads. Most boutique customers seem to want lightly built instruments with a lot of sustain and glistening overtones.

[ataylor]

Originally Posted by Rmz76

CJ35 is Collings interpretation of the vintage Gibson J-35 which at the time Collings introduced it was not available as a reissue from Gibson. Gibson seemed to have responded by reissuing the J-35. With it's lighter built construction and open back tuners, the modern Gibson J-35 is the one to really A-B against the Collings, it's not better than a J-45, just a different sound. Less mid-range focused, still has the distinct Gibson clang but with the J-35 bracing pattern it has just a bit more overtones.

The best J-45's deliver the mid-range but also manage to squeeze a lot of dynamics into that mid-range. You can't seem to get that from any other builder. I think the closest two would be Eastman E10SS and the new Taylor 510 shows promise in the on-line clips I've heard.

A lot boutique builders just aren't building mid-range focused dreads. Most boutique customers seem to want lightly built instruments with a lot of sustain and glistening overtones.

Gibson had done a handful of J-35 reissues prior to the Collings model. Fuller's in Houston would often have them ordered, there were some anniversary models, et cetera. And honestly, if the new J-35 was a response to anything, it was a response to Martin's updated D-18, which would be appropriate as the two guitars came out around the same time in the 1930s.

I believe Collings initially did the CJ35 as a custom for Mass Street Music, who I believe have had some of the Fairbanks and Kopp and other Gibson-style guitars come through their shop. I think Bill Collings saw the demand for a more vintage-styled and voiced slope shoulder guitar and made it a standard model. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a catalyst for the Waterloo line and/or their new traditional series option.

You are right that the J-35 has a slightly different tone than the J-45 -- a little brighter, a little louder, a little more crisp -- I like to think of it as being somewhere between a J-45 and an Advanced Jumbo.

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by ataylor

Gibson had done a handful of J-35 reissues prior to the Collings model. Fuller's in Houston would often have them ordered, there were some anniversary models, et cetera. And honestly, if the new J-35 was a response to anything, it was a response to Martin's updated D-18, which would be appropriate as the two guitars came out around the same time in the 1930s.

I believe Collings initially did the CJ35 as a custom for Mass Street Music, who I believe have had some of the Fairbanks and Kopp and other Gibson-style guitars come through their shop. I think Bill Collings saw the demand for a more vintage-styled and voiced slope shoulder guitar and made it a standard model. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a catalyst for the Waterloo line and/or their new traditional series option.

You are right that the J-35 has a slightly different tone than the J-45 -- a little brighter, a little louder, a little more crisp -- I like to think of it as being somewhere between a J-45 and an Advanced Jumbo.

Thanks for the correction. Considering the price difference, it was a bit of a reach for me to think Gibson's J-35 reissue was a response to Collings CJ35.

I like how you described the J-35's tone. I want one of each

[urlkonig]

Came close to taking an offer of a Collings CJ35, but talked myself out of it and took a chance on an Adirondack-topped 2012 J-45 TV. It endured a long and worryingly frigid cross-country shipment, arrived strung with a set of coated light gauge strings, and boy did it sound shut-up and awful. Came close to sending it back, but decided to let it acclimate to its new environment while I kicked myself for my impulsive decision. I decided to give it a second chance, and gave it a good set it up with non-coated Medium gauge strings. One week later, it has really opened up. The light strings simply couldn't drive the Adirondack top; With mediums it is an entirely different guitar. It's ridiculously light and lively, plays effortlessly, and feels like it weighs all of three pounds. Decidedly not Collings build quality, but much better than the run-of-the-mill Gibsons you usually see in the big box outlets. Most importantly, it has the sound I've been chasing. Now I can stop coveting my father-in-law's '47 J-45 -- and this one actually intonates, which is more than I can say about his vintage box!

[llew]

I had a standard J-45 and while it was a good guitar when I got a Kopp K-35 it never left it's case and I sold it. Found a used Walker Wise River a few years later and I like the Kopp/Walker better than any Gibson I've played. But that's my 2 cents. And I haven't tried the new vintage or true vintage Bozeman guitar that Wildwood sells either? They all sound stellar when Greg Koch demo's them? Glad the TV is too your liking...would like to try one someday? Congrats!

[Mking]

Originally Posted by Quake17

Not a direct comparison but I have a Collings CJ (Mahogany/Adirondack) and a Gibson Southern Jumbo True Vintage (Mahogany/Sitka). The Collings is not short scale.

I don't find a lot of similarity in the sounds. I think Collings went after the aestethic of the Gibbys but kept their unique, focused sort of sound. The Collings is louder and flat picks really well. I think the SJ is more of a great strumming guitar. I really like them both as I've become much more fond of mahogany the past few years.

I think in true Gibson fashion, there is a mix of Sitka and Adirondack tops in the J-45 TV line as well.

I own a 2007 J-45TV. Gibson told me that is the last year for Sitka tops on that model. It is a fantastic sounding guitar. I played it next to one that had the Adi top and the Adi was great but wasn't much different than my guitar, if at all. That was the consensus of three of us listening at Wildwood Guitars in Colorado.

[Dwight]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Here is Carl Miner flat picking a Collings CJ35:


- Glenn

Wow, just WOW! I'm not worthy, I've got the guitar but lack the skills.