The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:01 PM
schwa schwa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 123
Default Can one throw to many mics at a recording?

I'm getting ready to do some recording, and I should confess my gear is better than my talent.

I have some good mics (KSM 44, 2xSM81) and some good preamps (LA-610, SSL).

I'm thinking of using the LA with the KSM and the SM81's with the (4 channel) SSL. I figure if I ever get a good performance, I have a number of sources to choose from.

Is there any downside to this approach? Would I do better to focus more?
__________________
All I ever wanted was a good D28
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:12 PM
muscmp muscmp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 8,123
Default

as long as you keep it organized, i think it would be a good personal shootout to let you know what works with what.

play music!
__________________

2014 Martin 00015M
2009 Martin 0015M
2008 Martin HD28
2007 Martin 000-18GE
2006 Taylor 712
2006 Fender Parlor GDP100
1978 Fender F65
1968 Gibson B25-12N
Various Electrics
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:31 PM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,172
Default

Two mikes is plenty. The best recordings I have heard were done with two mikes. You could add in a pickup for a more powerful lower frequency response, but that is in another category then is adding a third (or more) microphone.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:36 PM
Looburst Looburst is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,678
Default

Yes, what Rick just said. Two are plenty and you know, tinker with the positioning of them, every guitar can vary a bit on the best placement. I usually use only one mic, pointed near the 10th fret but it can always change a bit depending on the guitar and mic.
__________________
Dump The Bucket On It!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-12-2017, 02:55 AM
RodB's Avatar
RodB RodB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW France.
Posts: 1,649
Default

As mentioned 2 is (for me anyway) usually optimum, but why not try different combinations simultaneously so that you know you are with what works best for you. Then you can focus on the music...
__________________
Rod,

My music Website or Soundcloud
Some videos on Youtube
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:08 AM
Fairlight Fairlight is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 225
Default

The answer to your original question is yes. Mostly. If you are wanting a certain stereo image and are able to record separate channels, then experimenting with additional room mics can be fun to create a bigger "space" and more air in your recording. If you want a simple solo, in your face performance, 1-2 mics close up are typically sufficient. A nice reverb or delay effect on a mono recording can sound really cool. Double tracking a mono part can also be an interesting way to create a more dynamic "stereo" sound or more punchy mono part. I usually double track rhythm parts while using one mic for leads. More finger style stuff I go for a wider stereo sound. A lot of options that really depend on the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-_xkBoAuJw
__________________

Last edited by Fairlight; 01-12-2017 at 08:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:03 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: On the Mass/NH border
Posts: 6,663
Default

A lot depends on your recording room. Unless a particular mic has very different tone/frequency/pickup pattern characteristics you probably won't be able to hear much difference between the tracks of 2 mics placed side-by-side. Placing the mics in different positions will allow you to get different sound (for example, one pointing to the 12th fret from 12", one pointing to the bridge at 12", one pointing to the soundhole at 36") and allow you to decide what works best for your guitar & room.
__________________
Mike

My music: https://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

2020 Taylor 324ceBE
2017 Taylor 114ce-N
2012 Taylor 310ce
2011 Fender CD140SCE
Ibanez 12 string a/e
73(?) Epiphone 6830E 6 string

72 Fender Telecaster
Epiphone Dot Studio
Epiphone LP Jr
Chinese Strat clone

Kala baritone ukulele
Seagull 'Merlin'
Washburn Mandolin
Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele
antique banjolin
Squire J bass
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:07 AM
ChuckS's Avatar
ChuckS ChuckS is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 3,644
Default

I agree in that you will most likely end up using 2 mics, but even with just two there are lots of options.

Are you familiar with different micing techniques, such spaced pair (A-B), X-Y, and Mid-Side? If not you might want to read up a bit and then experiment.

Once you discover a preference for the micing technique you can then experiment to fine tune its use for your application. There are variables such as distance from the guitar, how mics are pointing relative to the guitar, spacing between mics, etc. Then there are the mic variables such as sdc and ldc, as well as polar patterns (cardioid, omni, figure 8, etc).

I've found that X-Y is a pretty safe way to get a reasonable recording, but I don't really care for it that much for solo fingerstyle. I've found I prefer A-B, and depending on the mic and room, I'll place the mics 14-20" apart, back 16-30" from the guitar, and I pan them hard left and hard right.
__________________
Chuck

2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi
2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz
2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:28 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,797
Default

I didn't see anyone relate the issue with phase cancellation, but be forewarned if it hasn't been mentioned. Two mics are bad enough, and chasing the problem with three or more (assuming you are going to combine them in a track or stereo mix) can often be "challenging".
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-12-2017, 10:29 AM
H165 H165 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woods; OC, CA
Posts: 3,055
Default

Quote:
If you are wanting a certain stereo image and are able to record separate channels,
If this is true then the answer is no. Other than the disadvantage of jockeying for position and avoiding reflective problems, you can use all the mics you want and sort everything out in the mix. Beware - it adds extra work and requires good ears.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-12-2017, 11:20 AM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 19,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I'm getting ready to do some recording, and I should confess my gear is better than my talent.

I have some good mics (KSM 44, 2xSM81) and some good preamps (LA-610, SSL).

I'm thinking of using the LA with the KSM and the SM81's with the (4 channel) SSL. I figure if I ever get a good performance, I have a number of sources to choose from.

Is there any downside to this approach? Would I do better to focus more?
What type of recording are you doing just guitar or are there other instruments or vocals ?
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...

KevWind at Soundcloud

KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-16-2017, 06:42 PM
Cue Zephyr Cue Zephyr is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,148
Default

You can't, really, but you can end up using too many tracks. Even with vocals and guitar it can be great to have just one mic. You have to experiment a bit to get the balance right but when you do it'll sound wonderful.
__________________
Musician and producer
Inspirations: Bill Monroe, Brad Paisley, Eric Church, John Mayer, Taylor Swift
YouTube Twitter Instagram
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-17-2017, 08:55 AM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 19,887
Default

So far "schwa" has not informed us with a clarification as to his actual application so everything is a bit speculative still .

That said, Rudy4 brought up a good point and it is an issue even without full phase cancellation, because you can get comb filtering issues without total cancelation.
Recording an acoustic instrument in an inclosed space has potential phase "distortion" comb filtering issues even with only one mic, let alone multiple mic's . Now while this phase distortion can actually be pleasing (ie. good "stereo" recording ) phase is non the less distortion and increasing the number of mic's increases the potential for increased distortion issues .
And while there are numerous ways to minimize these phase issues and multiple mic techniques are routinely used by experienced engineers. The reality is that increasing the number of mic's increases the potential for phase issues plain and simple. So answer to the original OP , absolutely one can indeed throw too many mic's at a recording.
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...

KevWind at Soundcloud

KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-17-2017, 09:17 AM
Yamaha Man Yamaha Man is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,927
Default

Well let's say you put 5 mics on a guitar, each one on a separate track, then come back after recording and listen to each track separately, choose the one that sounds the best and mute the rest....that would work without any phase issues. What you're doing is just auditioning mics and mic positions. Take it a step further and try blending two mics together and you may come up with a great sound. I know that my Blizzard 4000 mic and Neumann TLM 102 sound great together. I found this out by experimenting with many various sound test recordings.
__________________
Alvarez 66 CE
Alvarez AJ80CE
Takamine F340
Guild F-2512 Deluxe CE
Ibanez Acoustic Bass 12 M1
Martin 12 string X Series
Harley Benton Telecaster
EVH Wolfgang

Formerly known as Martin Maniac.....









M
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=