It's impossible to get gigs in WI

jjloomis · #1 08-02-2005, 03:43 PM

Just wondering if other people in other states have similar problems. It's all schmoozing, who you know, etc--not about music at all. I try like a dog to get gigs and it's just isn't happening.

bagelsgirl · #2 08-02-2005, 03:55 PM

Well, I know that there are some towns, and some whole areas of the country - where I wouldn't do well at all! Some regions just don't support the kind of music I play (acoustic rock, folk or pop). I wouldn't do too well in upper mountainous Georgia, for example, where people would rather have folk or bluegrass - and I wouldn't do well in South Miami Beach, where they might prefer latin or dance stuff.

I can imagine that there are many cities where I would do well, and I might find enough work even though other styles would be around, too. But I'm thinking that smaller towns out west wouldn't be very good for me...

Could this be a reason, in your case?

jjloomis · #3 08-02-2005, 04:08 PM

I wondered that myself, but there are some acts that are sort of similar to what I do around here. It's frustrating. I tried Madison (I'm in Milwaukee) thinking they would be more "open" but they were worse. This one place emailed back with this:

Hi Jeffrey,

I listened to one track and read your blurb..

For whatever reasons, music such as yours doesn't really work here.

Sorry.

Best of luck,
Jon

(end)

I responded with:

Well, at least you gave me a good solid reason.

(How much worse could it get anyway?)

And this is a small little coffee shop. Like it's going to be some skin off of their teeth to have somebody play for free at their establishment.

mtmikey · #4 08-02-2005, 04:18 PM

take heart.

things are tough all over. there are bigger cities where folks are *paying to play*. it's nuts. but it's also economics for a lot of places, i think. coffee shops and restaurants (for example) are always thinking about what it means to their bottom line to take a table off the floor and have someone play for two hours or whatever.

jim tozier and i were going to play a gig at a small place here in maine (they have next to no budget; we don't care, we just wanted to play). it was an outdoor gig. it rained like the dickens. they thought about letting us set up inside very briefly, got a rush, and that was that. we understood. good food anyway...

you have to be persistent as heck. and you have to not annoy someone at the same time. somewhere in there, there is a balance. i think it's tough for anyone right now. there are lots of places to play these days as long as you can put your ego aside and fit in a small space... but many of them have no budget and there are so many folks vying for gigs. you might try hooking up some co-bills if possible.

good luck.

bagelsgirl · #5 08-02-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjloomis

I responded with:

Well, at least you gave me a good solid reason.

(

Did you really respond exactly that way? Because you might not think so, but you could be burning a bridge. Maybe the guy would want to hire you later on, but won't becase he remembers you as the guy who sent back what could be considered a curt reply.

Maybe the guy didn't hate what he heard but he just thought it wasn't what he needed, and he thought he would at least be courteous and reply. I'd actually be shocked to get any kind of response via email from anyone.

Word of mouth reference is the best way to get a foot in the door, but if I'm just making cold sales calls I find that if I don't go around and physically introduce myself in person, I rarely get anywhere. If I drop off a press kit and CD, or send something to some club via internet... then I'd say at least 9 times out of ten nobody will know who in the heck I am when I call later!

The reality is that clubs aren't going out of their way to find you. You have to convince them that they need the service that you can best provide, and meeting someone face to face is the best way to make an intitial impression.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I don't claim to know all about sales. I just know that has worked for me, and I'd just advise not to burn bridges along your way. I understand your frustration, too!

lfyost · #6 08-02-2005, 04:42 PM

It's not impossible. You just have to make every other song be something about the Packers!

Jim Tozier · #7 08-02-2005, 04:52 PM

JJ,

I just visited your site and listened to "It Would Take a Bullet to Get You Out Of My Head."

I get the impression from your website and this song that you play instrumental "soundscapes" on acoustic guitar? If so, I think the genre is what's making gigs so hard to get.

It's tough for instrumental guitarists to get gigs--the simple fact is the market for this sort of thing is much smaller than it is for singer-songwriters, etc.

The experimental nature of your music makes for a tougher sell, too. To my ear, you are focusing more on "textures" than melodies--and to the average listener, instrumental music without a strong melody becomes a sort of "ambient background noise" rather quickly. Again, I only listened to the one song--but it was 6+ minutes long, and it felt (to me) that there wasn't much after the first few minutes that would be compelling to the average listener, especially in a live setting.

On the other hand, I think your music would be wonderful for people (like me) who enjoy listening to music while reading (or working, studying, etc.) Perhaps you could market yourself (in terms of being a live performer) in a slightly different way. Have you thought about trying to play at someplace like Borders or Barnes & Noble? Or approach local coffeehouses and sell your music as more of a background thing that people can listen to while reading and enjoying a drink? I think you might have some more success with this sort of gig than playing in situations where people are expected to sit and listen.

Please don't think that my comments are intended to be demeaning in any way toward your music; the point I'm trying to establish is that it's probably best suited for different types of live situations.

I've done my share of playing in places where I'm "just background." And you know what? I enjoy it. It's a low-pressure situation, and I get a chance to try a lot of new stuff that I wouldn' try if I knew people were listening to every note. Plus, I think you'll find that a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be interested in guitar music will compliment you and buy CDs. I can't tell you how many times people have told me that they enjoy listening to my music while reading or as they are drifting off to sleep. Of course I'd prefer that they were listening intently to the music itself, but hey--as long as they like it, I'm happy.

Guyute · #8 08-02-2005, 06:08 PM

I pretty much agree with most of what's been said by Mike and Jim, but in particular, I have to agree with bagelsgirl. If you responded to the reply with a sarcastic jab, maybe your problem is more than just your genre of music.

It's hard to get gigs anywhere. Seriously, I have the kind of sound that bars and restaurants want, and I'm having a hard time finding a steady gig. Despite the fact that the last place I played, they complimented me from here until Tuesday, they don't have another open date until the end of October! I'd really like to be able to play out more than once a month, but the truth is, it's all about persistence and getting to the right person at the right time.

Definitely lose the attitude. I know it's frustrating, but being sullen or unpleasant can only be a detriment.

Good luck!

jjloomis · #9 08-02-2005, 07:27 PM

Thanks for all the responses. It is tough, and yes, songs about the Packers in WI will make you a local celebrity overnight. (That's a fact, not an exaggeration). I understand what you guys are saying about not burning bridges, I just figured the guy was lowing me off and had no intentions of ever letting me play there, so I figured it didn't really matter. No I don't usually do that, but when "for whatever reason" is your reason, I think that pretty much opens the door.

bagelsgirl · #10 08-02-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjloomis

No I don't usually do that, but when "for whatever reason" is your reason, I think that pretty much opens the door.

I'll agree, that was a wierd way to express it...

Guyute · #11 08-02-2005, 10:47 PM

Maybe not the way one of us would have put it, but I read that as, "I don't know why, but the people who come here just don't get all excited about experimental fingerstyle jazzy instrumentals." Maybe he didn't personally like your stuff and was trying to be polite.

I'm definitely not trying to be negative here. I think that the thing this illustrates is that the venue and the music have to mix well. I would never think of playing as background music in a fine dining restaurant. But I'm perfectly suited for a place where college kids go to eat dinner and drink beer.

again, I understand the frustration, I just think you need to refocus your efforts. Maybe they're places where you wouldn't normally think to play? Have you considered art galleries and the like?

Akubra · #12 08-03-2005, 07:19 AM

Whatever you do, do *not* play for free, or pay for play. That's bad for every working musician in the area. Nobody should EVER do that. Besides being bad for everyone's business, it represents that the music isn't worth anything.

mtmikey · #13 08-03-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akubra

Whatever you do, do *not* play for free, or pay for play. That's bad for every working musician in the area. Nobody should EVER do that. Besides being bad for everyone's business, it represents that the music isn't worth anything.

disagree, with caveats.

i would not pay to play anywhere. that's nuts.

i have done free gigs where i sell cds and/or get paid with dinner, etc. if it's a small venue it's cool with me (i wouldn't do it if it wasn't) and i usually make as much or more in cd sales as i would if i was getting paid a fee. those kinds of places aren't making an exception and not paying just me. everyone who plays there (little restaurants, coffee houses, etc.) gets the same treatment. these places aren't clubs, etc.

Daddyo · #14 08-03-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjloomis

Thanks for all the responses. It is tough, and yes, songs about the Packers in WI will make you a local celebrity overnight. (That's a fact, not an exaggeration). I understand what you guys are saying about not burning bridges, I just figured the guy was lowing me off and had no intentions of ever letting me play there, so I figured it didn't really matter. No I don't usually do that, but when "for whatever reason" is your reason, I think that pretty much opens the door.

Just add Mustang Sally and Old Time Rock and Roll to your set. I'm kidding, but . . . I'm not.

Akubra · #15 08-03-2005, 09:10 AM

If you play for free, venues will expect it from everyone, and will consider that they shouldn't HAVE to pay for live music. Something of a corollary with P2P and mp3 debates in that many people have come to expect that they are somehow ENTITLED to free recordings because technology allows it; venues would become accustomed to the same thing because musicians allowed it. In that regard, anyone who plays for free, or even plays at a discounted rate, has done a disservice to every professional musician in the area.