Business side of songwriting questions

[SongwriterFan]

I'm 99% sure that sometime this year I will retire from my "traditional" job (engineer with a salaried position), and begin songwriting as my actual job.

For those of you that do this, how do you handle the business side of things? Did you file "d/b/a" paperwork? Did you form an LLC? Do you just deduct things as a "sole proprietor"?

[The Bard Rocks]

I think first I would find out if anyone want to buy my songs. Maybe you've done that already. Have you copyrighted them? That would be my very first step, done before anything else.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I'm 99% sure that sometime this year I will retire from my "traditional" job (engineer with a salaried position), and begin songwriting as my actual job.

EDIT: I'm removing my over-sarcastic previous post, because I see from your other post that you are already writing songs professionally, which are being recorded - presumably for commercial issue. Well done!

I remain envious, as - for nearly 60 years - I've only been an amateur songwriter. I've played in around 30 different bands over that time, met countless musicians (may of them pro) but never met any interested in using any of my songs, at least not for commercial purposes. They all either played covers or wrote their own songs. And I can count on one hand the number who ever made any records.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I'm 99% sure that sometime this year I will retire from my "traditional" job (engineer with a salaried position), and begin songwriting as my actual job.

For those of you that do this, how do you handle the business side of things? Did you file "d/b/a" paperwork? Did you form an LLC? Do you just deduct things as a "sole proprietor"?

I've been self-employed and still do contract work, and have been a sole proprietor the whole time. There are legal protections for filing the LLC paperwork... basically if somebody sues you for business reasons, they can only go after the business assets and not your personal assets. Tbh doing the LLC thing is probably wise, but given the nature of songwriting work I'm not sure you'd be at much risk.

If you're just using your own name, you don't need to file DBA (also true if you do an LLC, since your business name would be covered under that). If you stay sole proprietor and want to have a unique business name, then you'd want the DBA.

So if you just want to do things under your own name, and aren't worried about lawsuits (copyright infringement is the only possibility I can think of), you don't need to deal with any of that paperwork. Just do your thing, keep records, and remember to report business dealings on the appropriate tax schedules.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by JonPR

EDIT: I'm removing my over-sarcastic previous post, because I see from your other post that you are already writing songs professionally, which are being recorded - presumably for commercial issue. Well done!

Ha! Wish you'd have left it the way it was. I was about to respond to it (in a a very nice way, since I could see the sarcasm/humor and recognize that everything you said was true.

Giving up my regular salaried position (assuming I go forward with that decision later this year . . . I'll be 60 in May) will be about the dumbest financial decision of my life. But I've been infected by the disease of songwriting over the last four years, and I don't think it's going away.

I haven't had any real success YET . . . but I have had a couple of songs that I pitched to publishers in Nashville where the publisher was interested enough to say that he was putting that song in his "personal file" so he could pitch it when the right opportunity comes along (which, of course, could be never).

And, I've had a couple of songs where local performs have threatened to record it . . . even had another song where a local band covered it for a while. So, maybe I actually have a bit of talent for this?

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

So if you just want to do things under your own name, and aren't worried about lawsuits (copyright infringement is the only possibility I can think of), you don't need to deal with any of that paperwork. Just do your thing, keep records, and remember to report business dealings on the appropriate tax schedules.

That's pretty much the way I see it. The only reason I can see for the LLC is to protect my personal assets (of which I have quite a bit . . . it's the only thing that'll allow me to pursue songwriting as my only job).

I'm assuming that (as a hypothetical) if I cause a car accident and injure somebody while driving to a gig that having the LLC isn't going to protect my personal assets? Need to ask a lawyer that.

And if I ever get accused of copyright infringement . . . well, for one, that'll mean I've done something successful. And I would assume that these kinds of things are typically settled as agreeing to share ownership or give it up entirely, rather than having to pay actual monetary damages. But what do I know?

[H165]

Small hijack -

I'd like to see any comments here about physically moving to a location (Nashville, New York, Los Angeles, etc.) that would put you in proximity to those who would use your songs.

At the professional "entry level", does physical proximity matter at all these days?

[srick]

I would advise consulting with a cpa and getting their advice on small business accounting and your State’s registration\tax requirements.

Also remember that for years you have had important expenses, like health insurance, paid for and subsidized by an employer. Now, in the self employed world, you will need to pay quarterly estimated taxes, an elevated social security\medicare tax (you pay the employers portion also), and health care premiums.

Good luck with this!

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by H165

Small hijack -

I'd like to see any comments here about physically moving to a location (Nashville, New York, Los Angeles, etc.) that would put you in proximity to those who would use your songs.

At the professional "entry level", does physical proximity matter at all these days?

Whether or not it's with people who would "use" your songs, networking is still very much a thing.

[rllink]

I'm not a song writer but I am an author. Same difference, I retired and started writing detective novels. I talked to my tax preparer about this very thing and he told me if I start making some real money from them that we might do something, but for the time being I could just keep records of profits and expenses and we would treat it like a cottage business. That was quite a few years ago. While I make money off my books, it has never reached that point where he hasn't been able to just treat it for what it is.

So I guess my advise is to write your songs and try to sell them. If you start making big money from them, then worry about it.

G&B Detective Agency, if anyone is interested.

[TBman]

Steps for LLC formation (single member, called a disregarded entity)

1. Check for name availability in your state

2. With an available business name, form the LLC with resident state. I know that the NJ LLC online formation is very easy.

3. Fill out IRS form SS-4 to get an idea of what info you will need online. Go online and file for a federal ID number.

4. You're done. The IRS will mail it to you and you can download the CP575. Don't lose this, you can't get another. It is needed to open bank accounts in the LLC name. Best thing to do is to download it as a PDF and save it in multiple back up areas and print several hard copies.

Be aware that some states have an annual LLC fee (CA is $800 a year I believe)

[Charlie Bernstein]

Songwritingfan, from the sound of it, you should be giving us advice on the business of selling songs!

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Songwritingfan, from the sound of it, you should be giving us advice on the business of selling songs!

Once somebody actually cuts one of mine, maybe.

I do know that I will have put 600+ miles on my car just this month going to open mics, playing/singing at church, and songwriting competitions. And getting paid once for $100 to do it. Heck of a business model.

[Nymuso]

Originally Posted by rllink

While I make money off my books, it has never reached that point where he hasn't been able to just treat it for what it is.

How is that so!? I left a few very positive reviews of your books on Amazon and I am astounded they haven’t propelled you into sharing private jets with Nelson DeMille!

[rllink]

Originally Posted by Nymuso

How is that so!? I left a few very positive reviews of your books on Amazon and I am astounded they haven’t propelled you into sharing private jets with Nelson DeMille!

It just takes time. Thanks for the reviews, I'm sure they help.