Resale Value On CF Guitars?

[denny1948golf]

Just wondering how the resale value holds up on CF guitars. In particular, Rainsong and Composite Acoustics. I can get a Rainsong Black Ice Jumbo new for $2124 Delivered. Is this a good price? What would the same guitar run used? How about the older CA (before Peavey), how well do they hold their value?

[dkoloff]

Originally Posted by denny1948golf

Just wondering how the resale value holds up on CF guitars. In particular, Rainsong and Composite Acoustics. I can get a Rainsong Black Ice Jumbo new for $2124 Delivered. Is this a good price? What would the same guitar run used? How about the older CA (before Peavey), how well do they hold their value?

For the most part CF guitars seem to hold value pretty well as watching the forums sales of CF over the past few years.

[RP]

I think it's all a matter of supply and demand. Interest in carbon fiber guitars is definitely on the upswing, but many probably still see them as faux guitars or novelty items so I believe demand to be relatively low when compared to wooden guitars. I think that Rainsong, Peavey, and other builders need to get these fantastic guitars into the hands of well-known performers to increase demand. At this point resale on the less expensive models is probably decent but I'm not sure about more expensive models...

[Doubleneck]

I think they act like any other guitars. If you buy new even at a very good price you will not be able to sell it except for a loss. With carbon you have some positives on the used market in that they hold up very well so there is less concern about something being wrong with a used instrument. Can be a downside if you buy a carbon and the technology seems to move past your model. I really think that is your biggest risk. I also was not happy the way Peavey at the end tended to leave many with the impression that the old CA's are not made that well. I think a lot of that was self serving marketing which I didn't appreciate cause of the questions it would put into the mind of those buying older guitars.

[mchalebk]

I see two factors that are likely to be prevalent with regards to resale value of CF guitars:

1. Fairly high initial cost.
2. High structural reliability.

The first probably makes it difficult for CF guitars to hold their value really strongly, in that a lot of people buying used are looking for bargains and CF guitars might not seem affordable enough to justify buying used.

The second means that CF guitars are less likely to have issues that could compromise their life expectancy. This might help convince someone that a used CF guitar is a safe purchase. If it's in good condition, it will probably be as good as a new one.

Bottom line? Not easy to say. So much will depend on the model. I would say CA GX and Legacy models will sell pretty well due to the popularity of these styles in general. The Cargo, due to its more affordable price and big sound/small size will likely maintain its value pretty well. Niche guitars (like the X, Xi and 12 string models) are likely to be more hit or miss; there are simply fewer people looking for guitars like these (though I hope I'm wrong about the Xi, because I plan to sell mine so I can get a new GX).

[benderman57]

Very Interesting subject.

I myself have been on the look-out for a used Composite Cargo. I am finding a few here & there (mostly Pre-Peavey) but at prices that really don't make a lot of sense to me. What I'm seeing right now is after people owning them for let’s say 3 to 4 years getting very close to their original money back selling on the various boards & ebay. You can't say that about many brands or other kinds of guitars. I don’t' see that quite as much in the other CA models I'm seeing when I'm searching but most are still getting pretty much top dollar for their used guitar.

I don't mind paying a higher than average price for a nice used Cargo because I hope that it swings both ways and I would really be happy if I was the seller. Most of what I have witnessed a person could have thrown in an extra $50 and bought new guitar with a warranty. I personally thought the new cargo was every bit the guitar I remember the Pre-Peavey being when I got to demo one recently.

I am still out there looking but after getting to try out a new Peavey Cargo I think I may just end up going that route instead.

I think in some cases the re-sale value is really strong!

[BuzzyBee]

I'm getting interested in CF, but I have to admit that I think future resale will be not as strong as wood guitars.

I see CF guitars as a still developing technology. I'm guessing that 5-10 years from now, there will be improved models that make the older models less desirable. Also, I think if CF becomes more popular and offered by a wider variety of makers, it will start to get less expensive and CF guitars that were a couple of grand new will be up against new sub $1k models. If CF breaks out of the boutique-ish mode, expect offshore competiton, particularly from China.

While wood guitars certainly are still seeing some innovation in product, I think the larger focus now is on variety and prices increase every year. I think that keeps traditional wood guitar prices more stable on the used market, so 10 year old wood guitar is priced as an alternative to today's new guitar prices.

My guess is that a new wood Martin purchased today would have a stronger resale value in 10 years than a similarly price CF model if resold in the same timeframe.

Of course, that doesn't account for the 10 years of enjoyment that you've gotten out it!

Bottom line... guitars are an expense, not an investment.

[RP]

Originally Posted by BuzzyBee

I'm getting interested in CF, but I have to admit that I think future resale will be not as strong as wood guitars.

I see CF guitars as a still developing technology. I'm guessing that 5-10 years from now, there will be improved models that make the older models less desirable. Also, I think if CF becomes more popular and offered by a wider variety of makers, it will start to get less expensive and CF guitars that were a couple of grand new will be up against new sub $1k models. If CF breaks out of the boutique-ish mode, expect offshore competiton, particularly from China.

While wood guitars certainly are still seeing some innovation in product, I think the larger focus now is on variety and prices increase every year. I think that keeps traditional wood guitar prices more stable on the used market, so 10 year old wood guitar is priced as an alternative to today's new guitar prices.

My guess is that a new wood Martin purchased today would have a stronger resale value in 10 years than a similarly price CF model if resold in the same timeframe.

Of course, that doesn't account for the 10 years of enjoyment that you've gotten out it!

Bottom line... guitars are an expense, not an investment.

Really thoughtful and well-put. Not that I buy guitars for investment (since I lose money on every transaction), but I think several ways to minimize loss are:

1. Purchase toward the lower end of the line
2. Purchase without electronics and add what you want
3. Keep it a long time

[tdq]

I have a late pre-peavy HG GX, which I was thinking of selling to fund the purchase of another guitar (I've since gone off the idea...) but I've been watching on ebay and the two I've seen for sale haven't sold, with one dropping it's price by $200 and still no sale, probably no more than 70% of original price. (These particular sellers aren't using bids so no idea of interest levels). What would the depreciation on a wooden guitar 2-3 years old in good condition be?

[vester]

I have bought and sold a few carbon guitars since I started playing them some I have taken a wack on and others I got what I wanted. That price for a new Black Ice is a good one. I have solds Blackbird and Rainsong, the blackbird rider solider in two days my Rinsong Black ice sold in the same. The studio series didn't sell so fast. Some of the people selling CA (Pre Peavy) have some unrealistic price points in my opinion.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by benderman57

Very Interesting subject.

I myself have been on the look-out for a used Composite Cargo. I am finding a few here & there (mostly Pre-Peavey) but at prices that really don't make a lot of sense to me. What I'm seeing right now is after people owning them for let’s say 3 to 4 years getting very close to their original money back selling on the various boards & ebay. You can't say that about many brands or other kinds of guitars. I don’t' see that quite as much in the other CA models I'm seeing when I'm searching but most are still getting pretty much top dollar for their used guitar.

I don't mind paying a higher than average price for a nice used Cargo because I hope that it swings both ways and I would really be happy if I was the seller. Most of what I have witnessed a person could have thrown in an extra $50 and bought new guitar with a warranty. I personally thought the new cargo was every bit the guitar I remember the Pre-Peavey being when I got to demo one recently.

I am still out there looking but after getting to try out a new Peavey Cargo I think I may just end up going that route instead.

I think in some cases the re-sale value is really strong!

Resale value of carbon guitars is very much in line with their wood counterparts except for a few exceptions like the Cargo which currently has a much better than average resale based on it's original sale prices but there is a very god explanation for that. According to insiders I talked to the Cargos sold by the original CA were all sold at a loss so we are not seeing, or likely to see new $700 RAW, or $800 RT Cargos again.

[P_K]

first, the price for your Rainsong Black Ice looks very good!

then, i've seen that, up to now, most of the CF guitars hold their value pretty nicely, specially boutique or speciality models (for example, custom finishes and so). on the other hand, i've seen cargos being sold during the last months for more than they have been bought initially

also, models that won't be reissued, like the CA baritone and 12-strings are more likely to increase their value

Blackbirds are quite rare to be seen for sale and if they do, they almost keep the same value at least

all the CF buiders now have a huge backorder list (except Rainsong, i think), so this factor is also important. a lot of people don't want to wait 4 months for an Emerald, for example, so they are willing to pay more for a second hand guitar

keep in mind that it is really really difficult to buy a CF guitar with any kind of damage and you don't have to worry if it has been properly humidified or not

[SpruceTop]

You should be able to sell a RainSong for about 70% of its new cost. For example, a WS-1000 typically sells new for a street-price of $2250. Used, and in excellent condition, a private seller could sell it used for about $1600 to $1650. The same guitar selling used in a music store would sell for about $1700 to $1800. The preceding is based on my experience selling my guitars on Craig's List versus the dealer where I bought them and his used prices. The dealer has to try to get a bit more for a guitar because of their time and cost in inspecting, adjusting and restringing a trade-in guitar. Thus, used carbon-fiber guitars and used all-wood guitars will sell for about the same price. The only stickler is that a quality all-wood guitar, such as Martin D-28, will sell much quicker than a carbon-fiber guitar, such as a RainSong DR1000 because there is more of a demand for quality wooden guitars and Martin is an easy sell.

Regards,

RainDance (aka SpruceTop when lignified)