I would like to have a poll about Guitar Character

[flaggerphil]

Originally Posted by PTC Bernie

If they sound the same, cost the same, why would I pick a damaged guitar over a new pristine one?

Indeed. If I'm going to have "character" on a guitar (and I have in the past) I want it to be my character.

[rmyAddison]

I agree the poll is "flawed".

I have never played two same model Martins that I thought were identical, there are always some differences, sometimes very small, sometimes significant, but you give me 2 model "X" and let me play a while and I'll have a preference.

The scenario with them both being priced the same, no allowance for shop wear, doesn't work for me either, not realistic.

I have bought the shop worn model over brand new (D-18GE many years ago), because the floor model was way better, but there also was some negotiation involved.

I think the poll would have worked better as shop worn with some discount versus brand new, just my opinion.........

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by DanPanther

You are in the Market for a used Martin Guitar. You enter your local Music store, and their for your selection are two Martin's, same in every way EXCEPT one has scratch marks above and below the sound hole, the other has no marks at all. Which would you choose.
PLEASE do not say you would like to put your own MOJO, if it's not offensive it shouldn't matter. Just pick the one that is most appealing to you. Both sound identical, both are the same price. Only Difference is the Character.

Dan

If these used guitars are the "same in every way EXCEPT one has scratch marks above and below the sound hole" and they are the same price, then the scratched one is overpriced.

Given this scenario are there actually people who would choose the scratched guitar? I'd choose it in a second if it had a lower price reflecting the damage, but at the same price I can see no rationale for choosing the damaged guitar.

[Dru Edwards]

If they sound the same I'm going for the one without the scratches.

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

If these used guitars are the "same in every way EXCEPT one has scratch marks above and below the sound hole" and they are the same price, then the scratched one is overpriced.

Given this scenario are there actually people who would choose the scratched guitar? I'd choose it in a second if it had a lower price reflecting the damage, but at the same price I can see no rationale for choosing the damaged guitar.

Or the pristine one could be underpriced.

Like I said earlier. Some kinds of wear can look great, a well worn guitar looks better to me. So yes, I would choose the worn guitar.

Just for an example. The picture down below, to me, is a gorgeous guitar. I would choose that over a pristine example every time even if it was the same price. A pristine example just doesn't look as good to me. I am drawn to that kind of thing

The fact that a guitar like this is usually cheaper than an example of the same model in pristine condition is just an added benefit to me. Obviously I'm in the minority though

[Fred]

If everything is equal, I'd go new. The older one likely would need a neck reset sooner. And I'd let the dings be "mine."

[jmjohnson]

Not a tough one - as pristine as possible please!

[Bowie]

My flawless guitars never get played. The ones with imperfections get lots of love.

[stevieboy]

They will probably have differences in character, but I wouldn't consider the scratches to be particular measures of that. As said earlier, you aren't going to find two guitars that sound the same, and play the same. Even if they would sound the same, they would feel different. That's character, IMO.

But since the OP has presented a theoretical situation however remote the possibility, I would pick the one with the least damage, even though I might well buy the other if it were the only one there. Simple economics, if I tried to sell it eventually, it would be easier to sell or I could get more for the cleaner one. I don't really see it as a character issue.

My own character, however, is highly suspect!

It just happens that a little earlier today, I was looking at a fifties 000-18 Martin. It has a repair on the side, but it was priced accordingly. Played well and sounded fine, and they had other 000-18s there to compare it to. That's a different kind of character that I can relate to!

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by PointBlank

Sound is most important for me I don't care what they look like. But you said they would sound the same. So I pick character, with a discount for scratch and dent.

It clearly READ SAME PRICE.
Dan

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by fazool

I think the poll is flawed.

It is based upon the presumption that the buyer sees the scratches as "character" and has to decide whether they want a guitar with said character or not.

It's a very odd question because its like saying "you go to the car dealer and there are two identical cars. One has a dented fender and the other doesn't. Do you buy the one with character or the one without character?"

We are talking specifically to a phenomenon that shows up on guitars, that many say does pot distract from their opinion of the guitar, I say Bull Crap it does matter. It has nothing to do with cars or anything else. The poll is not flawed. People just want to justify their clumsy handling of their equipment. IT DOES MATTER. People here keep harping scratches are Character marks, and mean nothing.
Now put up or shut up. If it doesn't bother you why would the poll be flawed. People talk the talk, but when it comes down to it. Character is not desirable.
You will accept it, IF THEY LOWER THE PRICE. I think this definitively proves my point, just the detractors have no wiggle room now. IT DOES MATTER.
Learn proper technique, and economy of motion, and respect for your equipment. Problem solved.

Dan

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by teleamp

Well, if they were the only two available, I would pick the one that sounded best... Thank /insert your choice here\ that there are a bajillion used Martins available. Character can be added if it is wanted...

No! No! NO!, That's wiggle room. THEY ARE BOTH IDENTICAL FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE.
NO WIGGLE ROOM, Put up or shut up.

Dan

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

Even if the price tags were the same I would normally assume there would be some room to haggle over the one with the scratches and dings. The success or failure of those negotiations would probably be the determining factor for which would come home with me. But if all things were truly equal and the owner unwilling to budge on price I would go for the flawless guitar.

NO ! If it TRULY DOES NOT MATTER, either one should be acceptable to the ones that claim it doesn't matter. I think they are not being honest.
NO DISCOUNT.

Dan

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by psychojohn

And I am one of them. I recognize that by OP description this is playing wear and tear, but on one level it looks like damage to me. All other things being equal, I'd go for the pristine one. Mojo or not, I like to do my own damage to my guitars, not wonder about someone elses.

That being said, if the tone of the character/damaged one was better, I'd buy it over the pristine one.

John

NO ! Once again, BOTH IDENTICAL. NO WIGGLE ROOM.
Dan

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by ukejon

Dan, too much is unrealistic here so I did not cast a vote.

I think it might have been a more effective exploration of the wear/mojo/patina concept if you asked about an older well worn Martin vs. a newer one--for instance, a 1972 D-18 that is marked up vs. a much newer or even a brand new D-18 that is pristine (which both might realistically have a value of $2500 or so). As it stands in your poll, the option is between a well worn Martin and a mint Martin that are otherwise identical (construction, year, sound, etc). If that is the case, who would choose the worn 1972 D-18 over the mint 1972 D-18? Very few people would do that, if any. Moreover, these two Martins that otherwise are "the same in every way" (construction, year, sound, etc) simply would not have the same value in the marketplace.

If you were asking between an older worn Martin and a minty new Martin of the same model both of which played and sounded great, I very likely would take the older one because I like the allure of vintage things, even if they show some wear and tear.

UPDATE: Posted an alternative poll that addresses the new vs. old character in a slightly different way.

You miss my point, many here claim it doesn't matter to them, I call BS, it does. No Wiggle room, if it didn't matter either one should be acceptable. Not a Vintage compared to modern new. That's wiggle, I said NO wiggle room.
I think it points directly at hypocrisy. IT DOES MATTER TO EVERYONE.

Dan