The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-24-2014, 08:30 PM
stuartb stuartb is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 1,575
Default The use of zero frets

on higher quality guitars. What is your opinion.

How do they impact playability. Does it make sense. Let's have a debate.

Stuart
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-24-2014, 08:34 PM
Boneyard75 Boneyard75 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 978
Default

I have been very curious about this on a few guitars that I have owned as well...Particularly when I prefer the sound of that instrument when it is capo'd...I have never followed through with any alterations, though....
Bone
__________________
Epiphone DR-500MCE
2011 Gibson J-45 vintage sunburst
1964 Gibson J-45 cherry sunburst
Martin SWDGT
Martin SWJGT
Martin MMV Dread
Martin 000-21
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-24-2014, 09:34 PM
paullouisf paullouisf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 205
Default

The only experience I have with a zero fret is my Conn F-1512. I think it is easier to play, especially at the 1st fret.
__________________
Relearning after a 30 year break.
--

Cordoba C5 (2015)
Yamaha FS700S (2014)
Conn F-1512 (1977)
Epiphone EA-250 (1973)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-24-2014, 09:39 PM
Pheof Pheof is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,104
Default

No. Zero frets failed to catch on in the 60's. So, no. There will be zero zero frets.
__________________
Disclaimer: All my statements are my opinion. I know nothing about everything.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-24-2014, 09:50 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Posts: 31,166
Default

There's a real resistance to zero frets among many North American guitarists, probably because most of the guitars that we've encountered on this continent that have them tend to be real cheapos.

But there's nothing wrong with the basic idea, at least on acoustic guitars. (On mountain dulcimers zero frets really add a tinny, nasal quality to the tone, but mountain dulcimers work in a different mechanical way than guitars, with a lot more of the tone being transmitted through the nut and through the hollow fingerboard directly to the top in a way that's impossible on guitar.)

Anyway, there are several high end custom builders who build using zero frets; I'm pretty sure Harvey Leach uses zero frets on his guitars. And Selmer and Selmer Maccaferri "gypsy jazz" guitars have always used zero frets as an integral part of their design.

So I wouldn't automatically dismiss the idea. I've heard and played some very fine-sounding zero fret guitars.


Wade Hampton Miller
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:01 PM
rogthefrog's Avatar
rogthefrog rogthefrog is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,058
Default

Some of the best guitars I have ever played have zero frets.

What's a good reason against zero frets?
__________________
Solo acoustic guitar videos:
This Boy is Damaged - Little Watercolor Pictures of Locomotives - Ragamuffin
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:05 PM
Guitar1083 Guitar1083 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 2,925
Default

I have a Zero Fret and i love it.

Alma Guitar Classical Guitar by techmanac, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:07 PM
pjroberts pjroberts is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Napa Valley
Posts: 2,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheof View Post
No. Zero frets failed to catch on in the 60's. So, no. There will be zero zero frets.
Actually, not. Gibson just recently announced their 2015 line with zero frets, which in that case are basically an adjustable nut height (same effect at the end of the day). The zero frets in the 60s were mostly a money saving tactic on cheap guitars because it is expensive to properly cut a nut - that need has obviously gone away, meanwhile the benefits remain for some. If you've played with a capo on lower frets you might feel the benefits of a seemingly low action and bouncy responsiveness.

Stuart, interesting you bring this up for discussion as I have raised the question before about above use case without knowing what zero fret was ... after someone recommended I look into zero fret like tweaks (one mentioned was zero glide DIY, though that thing scares me).

Because zero fret seems a little gimmicky to me, I've been wanting to start similar discussion about other options to achieve a similar effect. I have no problem fretting barre chords or anything else closer to the nut, but this bouncy responsive playability I love, so much that for certain songs I will tune down and capo up to get that playability. Any other ways to get that?

And please, bring on the zero fret debate!
__________________


martin D-28A '37 | D-18 | SCGC H13 | gibson SJ-200
taylor 814ce | 855 | GS Mini H.V. | goodall RP14 | Halcyon SJ

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:12 PM
PTC Bernie PTC Bernie is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: PTC GA
Posts: 4,537
Default Zero fret

I had a Parker for a while that had a zero fret. My old Aria string also uses a zero fret.

I've always liked them.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:27 PM
Pheof Pheof is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjroberts View Post
Actually, not. Gibson just recently announced their 2015 line with zero frets, which in that case are basically an adjustable nut height (same effect at the end of the day). The zero frets in the 60s were mostly a money saving tactic on cheap guitars because it is expensive to properly cut a nut - that need has obviously gone away, meanwhile the benefits remain for some. If you've played with a capo on lower frets you might feel the benefits of a seemingly low action and bouncy responsiveness.

Stuart, interesting you bring this up for discussion as I have raised the question before about above use case without knowing what zero fret was ... after someone recommended I look into zero fret like tweaks (one mentioned was zero glide DIY, though that thing scares me).

Because zero fret seems a little gimmicky to me, I've been wanting to start similar discussion about other options to achieve a similar effect. I have no problem fretting barre chords or anything else closer to the nut, but this bouncy responsive playability I love, so much that for certain songs I will tune down and capo up to get that playability. Any other ways to get that?

And please, bring on the zero fret debate!
When I see Fender, PRS, Martin, Collings and a lot more of the best US brands using zero frets I'll be convinced. As for Gibson, they're currently experiencing the most fire they've ever been under because of those 2015 models they're pushing onto the public - at a 29% price hike. That whole subject is fueling an enormous amount of criticism right now. I don't think Gibson is a legitimate player in the name of high quality guitars anymore. Don't get me wrong - I own 3 very expensive Les Pauls and a Hummingbird, but Gibsons best days are clearly behind them as far as traditionally accepted, time-tested, quality guitar making goes. They're on the verge of becoming toys at this point.

No to zero frets.
__________________
Disclaimer: All my statements are my opinion. I know nothing about everything.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:55 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,411
Default

I will be playing around with zero frets with my semi slothead design .
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:08 PM
DanPanther DanPanther is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Planet Wave
Posts: 3,964
Default

Kazuo yairi used it on many of his guitars. One that comes to mind is DY-68 12 string.
Dan
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:19 PM
Guitar1083 Guitar1083 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 2,925
Default

It only makes sense to have a Zero Fret - you can try Zero Glide

this is how i see it - if you fret the 7th fret then play your 8th, other then the note that changes the tone should stay the same, but open to the 1st fret with just a Nut the tone will change as well as the note. so having a Zero Fret keeps the tone the same.

Plus action is better, even with a nut set up.

This is just my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:20 PM
pjroberts pjroberts is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Napa Valley
Posts: 2,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheof View Post
As for Gibson, they're currently experiencing the most fire they've ever been under because of those 2015 models they're pushing onto the public - at a 29% price hike. That whole subject is fueling an enormous amount of criticism right now. They're on the verge of becoming toys at this point.

No to zero frets.
I doubt Martin will change anything in the next 100 years, but maybe PRS and Taylor, and for sure some of the smaller guys who aren't afraid of change. I think you're missing the potential benefits and suggesting hive mentality is the winner. Doing something different is how you change the game. That's how Apple shifted from a niche player to one of the most (if not the most) important computer maker - they changed the rules and now everyone carries a computer in their pocket. Not that this will win anyone major market share, but shaking things up and taking chances are how you reverse your fortunes. And I am not a Gibson fan ... I find the controversy interesting. Let's see how they play.

Anyway, we've already heard from some fans ... I'd also be interested in hearing from players who have adapted an existing guitar, which is how I got interested. I' not even sure what guitar I might do this to, but I'm game for an experiment that can be reversed.
__________________


martin D-28A '37 | D-18 | SCGC H13 | gibson SJ-200
taylor 814ce | 855 | GS Mini H.V. | goodall RP14 | Halcyon SJ

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-24-2014, 11:24 PM
rogthefrog's Avatar
rogthefrog rogthefrog is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheof View Post
When I see Fender, PRS, Martin, Collings and a lot more of the best US brands using zero frets I'll be convinced. As for Gibson, they're currently experiencing the most fire they've ever been under because of those 2015 models they're pushing onto the public - at a 29% price hike. That whole subject is fueling an enormous amount of criticism right now. I don't think Gibson is a legitimate player in the name of high quality guitars anymore. Don't get me wrong - I own 3 very expensive Les Pauls and a Hummingbird, but Gibsons best days are clearly behind them as far as traditionally accepted, time-tested, quality guitar making goes. They're on the verge of becoming toys at this point.

No to zero frets.
Can you articulate why? I'd genuinely like to know the argument. The zero fret builders are hardly clowns building cheap guitars these days.
__________________
Solo acoustic guitar videos:
This Boy is Damaged - Little Watercolor Pictures of Locomotives - Ragamuffin
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=