What Scale(s) for This Progression?

[nkm]

What scale(s) would you choose to solo over this chord progression with a slow, 12/8 gospel blues feel?

C F G7 C E7
A- D- E7 A-

I guess that would be a I IV V I III7 in the key of C and i vi V7 i in the key of A minor?

I was trying a modal approach at first but didn't really like the sound of E Mixolydian over the E7. I couldn't understand how E7 is in the key of A- or C. I know it is the V chord in the key of A minor but it seemed like everything else could be deprived from a C Major scale while E7 broke the flow. Probably more theory than my ears are ready for.

I also just tried a C major pentatonic scale and that seemed like maybe a better start.

I'm sort of a beginner—teaching myself with the help of the Mel Bay books, USC Fingerboard Mastery books, a few teachers on YouTube and friends. This question was raised from a play along track I made based on a chord progression on p32 of Mel Bay Guitar Method Grade 1.

Thanks!

[rick-slo]

Do you mean:
C F G7 C Em7
Am- Dm- Em7 Am-
?

[nkm]

In the Mel Bay book it is a straight up E7 introduced in the key of A minor.
The notes are E G# B D played like a simple E7 open chord.

From the book "The chords in the key of A minor: Am Dm E7" on page 31.

Who knows... maybe that only makes sense in the context of the book? Would Em7 normally be the v chord in A minor?

I'm probably getting ahead of myself. Thanks for the response!

[rick-slo]

Could be key of C major going into the key of A major with the E7. A little odd but possible.

[nkm]

Sorry I think my "-" minus symbols confused things. I don't know where I picked that up as the symbol for minor chord. Here is the progression as written in the book:

C F G7 C E7 Am Dm E7 Am

I think it is C major going into the relative minor key, A minor.

[stanron]

It looks like you are going from the key ot C major to the key of Am. Both keys can use the same scale of notes. The C scale uses

C, D, E, F, G, A, B and C.

The Am scale uses

A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and A

except that you would change the G note to G# when the chord is E7. (This is the Harmonic minor scale of Am.)

Because the two keys use the same notes they are said to be related. AM is the relative minor to C and C is the relative major to Am.

[nkm]

Thanks stanron! That answers the G#...

So would you solo with the notes of C major scale except over the E7, where you would sharp the G?

I'm curious how a soloist would choose which scales to play over each chord... or would you be focused more on the arpeggios of each chord using the notes of the C major scale as passing tones?

Maybe to simplify the question: How would you approach soloing over those chord changes in the context of a slow 12/8 gospel blues?

[stanron]

To be honest I don't really think about scales when I solo. I use scales but, if I think at all, I think about sounds.

Look at post number 6 in this thread

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=486418

Toby Walker is talking about using the pentatonic scale for playing blues, but what he is saying about learning phrases and licks in blues will apply to other scales and genres too.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by nkm

Sorry I think my "-" minus symbols confused things. I don't know where I picked that up as the symbol for minor chord. Here is the progression as written in the book:

C F G7 C E7 Am Dm E7 Am

I think it is C major going into the relative minor key, A minor.

Exactly. The E7 is a "harmonic minor" device to "tonicise" the Am chord, make a more convincing "cadence" to Am than Em7 would. If you just used Em7, that would sound like iii of C major, and Am would continue to be just vi of C major. E7 turns the Am into "i of A minor".
If the Am went to Dm and back to G and C, then we'd say the E7 was a "secondary dominant" - the key remains as C major, and the Am is just temporarily strengthened.
But the sequence quoted repeats the E7-Am change, confirming that a modulation really has taken place.

As for scales, all you really need to do is change the C major scale just enough to accommodate the E7. That means raising G to G#, which happens to give you (surprise surprise ) the A harmonic minor scale.
On the Am and Dm you can revert to A natural minor (C major) if you like. A harmonic minor would fit both chords, but might sound a little odd, because it's designed purely for the V chord (E7) and maybe for the vii chord (G#dim7) if it appears.

In your context of a "slow gospel blues", I'd probably work from C major pentatonic in the C major section - maybe (but not necessarily) referring to chord tones on the F and G7 too. Major pent is the core sound of gospel melodies (listen to any Sam Cooke, you hear almost nothing but major pentatonic).
For "blues feel", I might even ignore the E7 and stick with that pentatonic into the A minor section, because of course C major pent becomes A minor pent when A is keynote.
In both sections I would be using Eb to approach the E (blues b3 in C, blues b5 in A), or bending up (and down) from Eb or D.

If I wanted to get more "jazzy", I might accent extensions, such as maj7s and 9ths on C and F, 13 on the G7, 9th and 11th on the Am and Dm (hopefully without overdoing it! ). And I might use G#dim7 arpeggios over the E7, or some altered scale lick (using the b9 and/or #9 of the chord, maybe a b5 or #5).
I.e., I regard "jazzy" as more complex than "gospel" or "blues", but not better. Personally I'd like to keep it simple. Only if the rest of the band (especially a piano player) or audience were into a jazz vibe would I consider jazzing it up, and maybe not even then.

[nkm]

Thank you! This is exactly what I needed to know. It makes perfect sense. Great explanation. And great note about singing the phrases as well. Much appreciated!

[Guitar Slim II]

A dominant 7 chord usually functions as a V chord. Look for them and you can usually tell what key you’re in or if the key has changed.

In this example we have two: G7, which is the V of C, and E7, which is the V of Am.

Also note that C and Am are relative major and minor. “Borrowing” The dominant chord from relative minor (E7 if you’re in the key of C) is a fairly common trick, even if it doesn’t lead to a full key change.

[zhunter]

Talking purely scalar and leaving pentatonics out since covered:

A guideline jazz approach for playing over secondary dominants is select notes from the seventh degree of melodic minor (altered scale) when the target chord is minor in the parent scale, and select notes from the fourth degree of the melodic minor scale (Lydian flat 7) when the target chord is major in the parent scale. Since E7 is the V of vi, I'd think about E altered.

I'd also think about playing straight C major. That works with the Am and the only "wrong" note for E7 is the minor 3 (G) which can be considered as and will function as a blue note for the E7.

All depending on context of course. For example, if the structure lingered on the E7, it could easily become a temporary key center and then mixolydian might seem just right.

Actually the V of vi (or dominant III if you will) can be one of the more twisty secondary dominants to accommodate melodically. If you wind up playing altered, your ear may need to develop a little or you may need to be careful about notes you choose from the scale until you get used to it.

hunter