Aural training, chords/melody/upper lower neighbors, passing notes/progression ???

[jasperguitar]

The last few days, mostly because I watched a u tube lesson from Andrew Wason [ spelling ? ], on aural training, listening ... I've been humming songs, then picking out the notes, playing the melody. I will take a simple song, hum the melody, pick a key, play the scale of the key, such as G major.. play the corresponding relative minor .. E minor for G major .. and play the song a few times, listening to the notes, intervals, how they relate. This led me to picking out the chords, or chord progression of the songs.. And that is where I get messed up... for the life of me, I can play the tune, hear it in my head, yet when I go to sing the tune with the chords, or what I believe is the proper chords, it does not sound correct.. This led me to my theory book, which gets me to passing notes, upper and lower neighbors.. blah blah ..

If you have a plan, or practice idea ?

I'm good to play with the key, the scales, the melody.. but I get hung up on the chords, or when to change chords, etc.

Any help.. I am determined to get over this hump..

Rock on ..

Or acoustic on ..

Or rock n acoustic on ..

[mc1]

sounds like you are on the right track but just need to keep practicing.

just like knowing the major scale can help pick out melody notes, knowing the chords in a key can assist in finding them. it also helps to listen for the bass note, which will usually be a chord tone. i'll sometimes just play single notes against a chord to determine if that note is part of the underlying chord.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

The last few days, mostly because I watched a u tube lesson from Andrew Wason [ spelling ? ], on aural training, listening ... I've been humming songs, then picking out the notes, playing the melody. I will take a simple song, hum the melody, pick a key, play the scale of the key, such as G major.. play the corresponding relative minor .. E minor for G major .. and play the song a few times, listening to the notes, intervals, how they relate. This led me to picking out the chords, or chord progression of the songs.. And that is where I get messed up... for the life of me, I can play the tune, hear it in my head, yet when I go to sing the tune with the chords, or what I believe is the proper chords, it does not sound correct..

Stop right there! Don't go to the theory books... (at least not all that stuff about neighbour tones...)

If something doesn't sound correct, then it isn't. Either you are wrong about "what I believe is the proper chords", or you are maybe singing in the wrong key.
How are you getting the chords? From net tab? Published songbook? By ear yourself, from original recording? or youtube lesson?
When you say you "pick a key", how and why do you choose it?

My guess is the problem area is the chords (because by saying "believe" you're admitting to a lack of certainty there!)

IOW, two areas to look at:
1. Do you have the correct chords?
2. Are they in the same key you're singing it in?
(IOW, you can have the right key, but some of the chords could be wrong; or you can have all the right chords, but in the wrong key.)

Sometimes, however, even when everything is correct - right key, right chords, you're singing the right notes - it will sound significantly different from how you think the song ought to sound. This will be the case if it's a heavily arranged pop or rock song, with lots of effects of various kinds.
The right chords can also be played in many different ways: strummed, picked, arpeggiated, clean, distorted, full or partial, power chords, etc.

So try to go over everything and check all the details.

If you have problems identifying correct chords from recordings (many of us do ), use some software like Transcribe:
http://www.seventhstring.com/
- it's the best aural assistant you can get.

[jasperguitar]

John from PR .. "When you say you "pick a key", how and why do you choose it?"
The key ? I started with a simple song. Kinda sang it .. hummed it .. then I played a major scale, such as G. I tried to match the song, as I sang it, to that key, within that scale.

I know the basic progressions of the G major .. G M .. A/m B/m C M, D M, E/m

What I'm trying to do is train my ear to feel/hear the change, as I sing, play the melody.

I have the hardest time knowing when to switch or change chords, as I sing along. Or hum along.

I'm not using any book or tab.. I just play a scale, such as G major.. then the E minor .. then I will play the progressive chords.. Just to see if I can get a feel for this..

I am using the Solfeggio .. do, re, me, .. as a tool.

I am good at playing the single note melody, weak when it comes to hearing the harmony, or accompanying chord.

[jwing]

Here's how I developed my ear for chord changes:

Go here: http://drbanjo.com/instructional-2ch...php#tryhearing

Pick out some of the songs from the two-chord song list and listen to them in whatever format you have access to, such as Youtube, iTunes, Rhapsody.

Play along with them. First step is to discern the key, then get your capo in place and play. Usually a song starts on the root chord. In a two-chord song, you have only one chord to change to, so you know where to go; you just have to teach your ears to anticipate when to go.

One you get pretty good at that, repeat the process with three-chord songs.

An excellent resource for this exercise is this DVD:
http://www.drbanjo.com/drbshop/dvds/...total-beginner. It's also available at homespun.com as a downloadable file. The songs are played super slow so you can develop your ear. The next DVDs of the series get progressively faster.

[oldhippiegal]

1) turn up the bass. While there might be inversions or a walking bass, often the lowest note you can hear is the root of the chord.

2) stop playback with every chord. Try singing through the notes of the chord. Guitar in hand, find and play those notes in the first five frets, if possible. (unless you're already a whiz at the fretboard) What chord does it look like?

3) hunt around on line for aural chord training.. There are sites that will start you with I-IV-V progressions, slowly add in VI, II, and III chords, and keep the music simple. When you know that any chord must be one of only three or four chords, it's easier to hear which one it is. In pop music, you might be dealing with secondary dominants or transitions or modes or any odd thing.

4) record your own ear training. Play 20 or 30 progressions, record each as mp3 file. Then shuffle upon playback.

It's so hard at first to get this skill, but it will pay off in many ways on down the road, so I applaud your trying.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

John from PR .. "When you say you "pick a key", how and why do you choose it?"
The key ? I started with a simple song. Kinda sang it .. hummed it .. then I played a major scale, such as G. I tried to match the song, as I sang it, to that key, within that scale.

I know the basic progressions of the G major .. G M .. A/m B/m C M, D M, E/m

What I'm trying to do is train my ear to feel/hear the change, as I sing, play the melody.

I have the hardest time knowing when to switch or change chords, as I sing along. Or hum along.

I'm not using any book or tab.. I just play a scale, such as G major.. then the E minor .. then I will play the progressive chords.. Just to see if I can get a feel for this..

I am using the Solfeggio .. do, re, me, .. as a tool.

I am good at playing the single note melody, weak when it comes to hearing the harmony, or accompanying chord.

OK - I guess you mean you're working from memory of how the song goes, rather than working it out step by step by listening to a recording?
If so, why not just look the chords up, to check your guesses?

It's good that you're working by ear to start with, but it is a lot harder to hear harmony (and even harder to work it out from memory) than to hear single notes.
So there's no shame in checking, especially when you know something doesn't sound right (and you can't find anything that does sound right). It won't inhibit your ear training, and may even help.

IOW, your ear is either going wrong, or doesn't know which way to go. (Although it's clearly good enough to know when it's gone wrong!) So check the "map" (any reliable chord chart); or listen to a recording to give your ear some proper reference. Eventually you'll learn the common routes and pathways. You will need the map less and less.

[jasperguitar]

"If so, why not just look the chords up, to check your guesses?"
"It's good that you're working by ear to start with, but it is a lot harder to hear harmony (and even harder to work it out from memory) than to hear single notes." "So there's no shame in checking, especially when you know something doesn't sound right "

Jon .. I am doing both.. I'm basically working on relative pitch, I believe that is the correct musical phrase.. So, when I hear a C maj chord that goes to an E minor chord, in a song that is in C maj.. I can hear it, play it, just kinda know that progression, interval, sound..

I'm mainly a bass player (that's just one step above a drummer so take what I say with a table spoon of salt) but I like to try a bit of acoustic strumming and singing every now and then. Living in Nashville for over 35 years I've had a chance to see lots of solo performances, open mics, song writer 'rounds, talk to lots of players/singers, etc. The one thing that helped me see the big picture the best is what I have heard several of these folks say - "there is far more "music" in your strumming hand than in your fretting hand."
Playing the exact/perfect/correct chords with poor rythm will loose every time to someone playing the wrong chords but with good rythm. It may be cliche but the old saying "three chords and the truth" will make a lot of good music is true. I find I do better and enjoy it more when I trim a song down to just three chords (I or vi, IV, V or V7) and work on my timing/strumming. When to change chords? When I feel like it's time. Heck, even the original artist doesn't change chords the same each time they play or even use the same chords or progression every time.
Don't let not playing the "correct" chords be a hump in your road to having fun playing guitar and singing. Walk that road with good rythm and have fun.

[ridethatbike]

I've been using "Perfect Ear", which is an Android app. It helps teach you intervals and chords, and starts off really basic. You can sing back to it as well. Pretty cool, especially for being free. Hope that helps.

edit: looks like the "useful" version is 0.99.