Help with setting up my stage sound

[SalFromChatham]

Hey fellas,

I want to gig with my new Bird ten days from now, and I want to get the settings right before I go on vaca away starting this Saturday.

Chain:

Hummingbird with Baggs VTC UST pickup ==> Baggs Venue DI ==> Fishman SA330.

I tried this out last night briefly. The low E is powerful and quacky. I have the VTC set up to a volume level of about 6, the tone wheel bang in the middle, and then on the VenueDI, bass and lower mid at 11:00 (just shy of flat) and the high mid/presence/and treble at 1:00 (just above flat). The gain on the DI is about a 5. The fishman's gain is also about a 5.

Any thoughts or ideas? Is it better to have the guitar volume/gain higher, and the Baggs DI and Fishman gain lower? vice versa?

In general, if you have any ideas on EQ-ing an under saddle transducer in my case, I welcome your help.

[YamahaGuy]

I worked on a Rainsong that had an imbalance of output across the strings. It took some work with the underside of the saddle to get it right. That said, I doubt you want to dive into anything like that this close to the gig date. As for levels, my guitars have a detent at 12 o'clock, or are very clearly marked, so I like to set their gain at 12 o'clock so I have more headroom if needed in the moment. Maxing out, or having it higher, the gain on the preamp and / or guitar is always the best option in my opinion, as cranking the gain at the mixer/pa is most likely to increase unwanted hissing or dead noise. So for the eq settings, if you can't get it dialed with the three pieces in your chain, it may be a worthwhile investment to get an eq pedal. Best of luck.

[Al Acuff]

You might be overthinking this stuff. Practice up and go have fun playing the gig. You have good equipment and you'll get the sound dialed in to your liking pretty quickly.

[JayBee1404]

I'd be dumping those mids somewhat.

[martingitdave]

I always start with the EQ flat across the whole signal chain. Acoustic guitars with UST pickups generally need a mid cut between 900 and 1100 Hz. They usually need a bass boost below 200 Hz, and a low cut filter around 120 Hz for feedback resistance. Do all your EQ in one device. Leave the rest of the signal chain flat and unaltered. Try the guitar straight into the Fishman. It was designed (and voiced) to improve the tone of UST pickups.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I always start with the EQ flat across the whole signal chain. Acoustic guitars with UST pickups generally need a mid cut between 900 and 1100 Hz. They usually need a bass boost below 200 Hz, and a low cut filter around 120 Hz for feedback resistance. Do all your EQ in one device. Leave the rest of the signal chain flat and unaltered. Try the guitar straight into the Fishman. It was designed (and voiced) to improve the tone of UST pickups.

Good advice. K.I.S.S. principle applied, use nothing before the need arises and don't guess.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

Good advice. K.I.S.S. principle applied, use nothing before the need arises and don't guess.

Thanks!

Also, to the OPs original question on gain staging, it is an important topic.

The deal with gain staging is this:

1. The power amplifier at the end of the signal chain (last amplifier inside the Fishman) will amplify everything is sees (i.e. the signal and the noise).

2. The preamp in the guitar, or the pedal, the cables and everything else will generate some noise.

3. Ideally, you want to have a fairly hot signal hitting the power amplifier so that power amp has to do less work and generates less noise itself. This is called signal/noise ratio. You want the signal to noise ratio to be as nigh as possible.

4. You do that by setting your guitar's active pickup system as high as you can before it "clips" into the next device. That way you're sending as much signal as you can with as little noise as you can.

5. If that signal is hot enough from the guitar, and properly buffered, you don't need a preamp pedal. Unless, that peramp pedal provides some other special needed features or effects, it's just generating noise and degrading the signal.

How to gain stage a solo singer/songwriter setup:

1. So, for the cleanest signal, you would set the guitar to what ever the hottest signal you can send to the Fishman SA330 before the Fishman's pre fader clip light flashes. Bang as hard during sound check as you would when you play the gig, to be safe. Don't set the final level on the Fishman's guitar channel yet.

2. Then, you would set you microphone gain on the Fishman mic channel during your sound check (singing full voice) until the mic clips, and then back off a bit. There should be a sweet spot for gain and feedback rejection. The backing off from that clipping level is called your "headroom." It takes a little practice to find it.

3. Then, you balance the guitar against the mic with the Fishman's guitar channel level control.

4. Lastly, set the master volume to whatever level is required to hit the back of the room.

Other tips for singer/songwriter types:

1. Use balanced (XLR or TRS) connections on equipment wherever possible. This assists with noise rejection and provides a hotter signal.

2. Avoid the low channel gain / high master gain syndrome for acoustic amps. This makes for noisy sound. An over simplification is to start with channel gains around noon and keep the master low.

3. Don't use a bunch of unnecessary pedals that promise to make the signal magic. I see some of these acoustic pedal boards guys post and cringe. Every pedal is a gain stage and it introduces noise, and possibly clipping/distortion. If you need a peramp/DI/Eq pedal to make your pickup sound normal, buy a high quality one. An all-in-one device is usually the least noisy. Use the effects loop on that DI, if you absolutely must have effects.

For instance, I will use the TC Helicon Play Acoustic pedal as the "mixing desk" when I pay solo. It literally has all the features of a 2 channel mixing desk and effects processor in a small box. It uses balanced connections, and has control of gain staging throughout.

Done.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/gain-staging/

[SalFromChatham]

thanks guys

[lschwart]

One thing to add to the good advice you've already gotten: if you do keep the Venue DI in the chain, remember that the two mid EQ controls are semi-parametric, which means you have to pay attention to the knobs below each one as well as the two that are obviously labeled "Hi Mid" and "Low Mid." Those bottom knobs control the center-frequency that's being cut or boosted by the position of the top knobs. You want to use them to find the frequency or frequencies giving you the undesirable part of parts of your sound, and then you use the top knobs to cut at those frequencies. Often a good way to find the bad frequencies is to boost the signal and to sweep through the frequencies with the bottom knobs until your signal sounds worst. That's where you cut until the bad sound is suitably muted. You may find that a cut with the hi mids is desirable and a boost in the lows is nice. Or not. You just have to play, listen, and tweak until you figure out what sounds best to you.

And this is only worth doing if the EQ on the Fishman isn't adequate for your purposes--or if you need and want other features that the Venue gives you (tune, boost, FX loop, etc.). If you do decide to use the EQ on the Venue, leave the EQ on the Fishman flat.

Louis