Flatpicking Pattern for 6/8 Melodies?

[wrbriggs]

For the entire time I've been flatpicking melodies (almost two years), I've been playing with a very strict alternate picking pattern, regardless of which string is next. This has actually been working quite well, and has made alternate picking a habit. My issue is that I've recently started trying to flatpick some Celtic melodies from Dan Mozell's "Incomplete Celtic Guitar Volume 1".

I'm getting completely stymied by the 6/8 songs (in particular, "Banish Misfortune") - not because I can't count in 6/8, although that is taking a little work to get used to - but because the songs seem to sound more authentic if I pick in such a way that a downstroke always falls on the first and fourth beats - e.g., DUDDUD. Is this the "right" way to do this? Breaking out of alternate picking is scrambling my brain, and I need to know whether I'm doing the right thing, or if I'm just going to confuse myself.

Thanks!

-Will

[HHP]

DUDDUD would be generally the way to go. You want it to sound as two tripets and the pattern tend to produce a slight gap between the two and provide the correct accenting. Count as 1-2-3 2-2-3 1-2-3 2-2-3

[min7b5]

I also think DUDDUD is the way to go to get the strong stroke on the strong beat as a basic flatpicking approach. However, I think as tempos increase there's a likely a breaking point were you'll have to go back to alternating and have to focus your listening to find the beat -since you won't feel the time nearly as much in your right hand as you did with DUDDUD.

[Bingoccc]

I don't know if this will help but I sometimes take a moment to get the triplet part of the Lone Ranger theme in my head when I'm trying that kind of thing. Simple stroke for simple folks in my case. I know the timing is different but the ta-da-da in my head helps.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Bingoccc

I don't know if this will help but I sometimes take a moment to get the triplet part of the Lone Ranger theme in my head when I'm trying that kind of thing. Simple stroke for simple folks in my case.

I tried that, and it worked, except I always ended up yelling "Hi HO Silver!" in the middle of The Kesh Jig.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by wrbriggs

I'm getting completely stymied by the 6/8 songs (in particular, "Banish Misfortune") - not because I can't count in 6/8, although that is taking a little work to get used to - but because the songs seem to sound more authentic if I pick in such a way that a downstroke always falls on the first and fourth beats - e.g., DUDDUD. Is this the "right" way to do this?

If it sounds more authentic, then yes!
Counting in 6/8 is "One and a Two and a", so it's probably important to have some kind of accent on the "Two", and a downstroke there obviously helps.

I think DUDUDU is also worth trying though, as long as the Ds are not accented much more than the Us. IMO, at speed, DUDUDU is going to work better than DUDDUD, because it's likely to be smoother.

Naturally things like string-crossing may require variations.

[HHP]

I would sort of caution against the alternating stroke for the reason that once you get further into these tunes, you'll find that you need to do fast triplets and 4-6 note rolls within 1 beat and generally speaking, coming out on a downstroke makes it easier to stay in time. Likewise, you might get crossed up when you encounter a tune in 9/8 like a slip jig where its maybe more important to stick with DUDDUD.

[stanron]

It is possible to retain alternate picking if the middle note of triplets is achieved by left hand dynamics. Either hammer on, pull off or slide. However in order to do this you will sometimes need to go outside conventional scale patterns.
So you end up with D hammer on U or D slide U etc.

[stanron]

Here's the first part of Banish Misfortune as an example;

E╓─2p0─────────┬─────────────┬─────────────┬─────────────┐
B╟─────3───────┼─────3───────┼─────────────┼─────────────┤
G╟───────5p2─0─┼─2─────5p2─0─┼─────────────┼─────────────┤
D╟─────────────┼─────────────┼─4───0─0h2─0─┼─4p2─4─5p4─5─┤
A╟─────────────┼─────────────┼─────────────┼─────────────┤
E╙─────────────┴─────────────┴─────────────┴─────────────┘

. .1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + +


E╓─────────────┬───────────0─┬─2p0─────────┬─────────────┐
B╟─────────────┼───────1h3───┼─────3───────┼─────────────┤
G╟─2p0─2─5p2─0─┼─2p0─2───────┼───────5p2─0─┼─2s7─6─7─────┤
D╟─────────────┼─────────────┼─────────────┼─────────────┤
A╟─────────────┼─────────────┼─────────────┼─────────────┤
E╙─────────────┴─────────────┴─────────────┴─────────────┘

. .1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + +

If you have not heard this played by an Irish traditional player you should. The rhythmical feel is quite subtle. It gets played with a 'lilt'

[u38cg]

The feel is more important than the technique, and without doubt there are good players who do both. But almost any trad player of picked instruments will advise downstrokes on the beat as a general rule, even if they don't play them themselves.

There's a good discussion aimed at mandolin players here:

http://www.nigelgatherer.com/mando/pickdir/pd1.html

[GregB]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I also think DUDDUD is the way to go to get the strong stroke on the strong beat as a basic flatpicking approach. However, I think as tempos increase there's a likely a breaking point were you'll have to go back to alternating and have to focus your listening to find the beat -since you won't feel the time nearly as much in your right hand as you did with DUDDUD.

I agree with Eric. This also the way Steve Kaufman teaches triplets.