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  #46  
Old 03-14-2013, 03:28 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by XYRN View Post
Wow, very cool. Thank you for your response.
I like hearing about memory devices that help relate the theory to practical application. Your tips will certainly help!
I agree, it's a great one.

A couple of mnemonics for added sharps and flats might also help:

Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle = order of added sharps in sharp keys (G has F#, D adds C#, etc).
Reverses for the flat keys:
Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles's Father (F major has Bb, Bb major adds Eb, etc.

A less old-fashioned sounding one, which doesn't exactly reverse but is more amusing for kids:

Father Christmas Gave Dad An Electric Blanket
Blanket Exploded And Dad Got Cold Feet
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  #47  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:35 AM
ombudsman ombudsman is offline
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Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Just to clarify: you mean what's normally called the 4th string, but you're counting the other way:
right, with these types of mnemonic devices I'm thinking of sets of notes and patterns, and when these involve visualizing the fretboard, I'm still thinking of them as ascending or descending patterns in whatever ordinal position they fall relative to the set, rather than the typical numeric references to strings. (Since I use 4ths tuning all of my strings have unique names; without low E and high E, I have no need to refer to single strings by number, I always use the names. The only time I might need to use numbers is for a range of strings, when describing voicings or fingering patterns.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Actually, you could use a similar pattern to the flats one, 1 fret up, as follows:

E|-3- = G = 1 #
B|-3- = D = 2 #s
G|-2- = A = 3 #s
D|-2- = E = 4 #s
A|-2- = B = 5 #s
E|-2- = F# = 6 #s


Leaving C# where everything is sharp, as you say.
Ok, now I kind of feel like an idiot for not seeing that, which is simpler than the (for me, open C), then descending G,D,A,E, then ascending B,F#,C# visualization I've been using for the last 3 years. Partly because, in 4ths, as with the flat key imaginary line, it's simply a straight line going across all 6 strings at the 2nd fret (instead of the same line at the first fret for flats). With the "flats" line being the lower of the two, which is also easy to remember.

Hopefully I'll be able to execute a successful change of this mental habit ! Thanks for the input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
The order of adding sharps (F# C# G#...) doesn't work in the same way from this one though. You need a different system: the added sharp is the half-step below the keynote. (G major adds F#, D major adds C#...)
Yes, I personally have considered these things as two separate types of mnemonic devices rather than related them together in that way. I found it worked better for me (but it may work better another way for someone else). That said, I have noticed these symmetries and try to be conscious of them as I run through the keys:

as you're in flat keys, ascending into keys with more flats:
the new accidental will be up a 4th from the new key

as you're in flat keys, decending into keys with less flats:
the new natural will be the 7th from the new key

as you're in sharp keys, ascending into keys with more sharps:
the new accidental will be the 7th from the new key

as you're in sharp keys, descending into keys with less sharps:
the new natural will be the 4th from the new key
(example: going from the key of D to G, C (4th of G, 7th of D) is the "new natural")

bearing in mind that a 7th is a 4th of a 4th, and these things reciprocate from the same series of accidentals up and down, with the flat keys introducing accidentals on the 4th and the sharps on the 7th which again relate to flat being lower than sharp and 4 being lower than 7.

This might seem like a strange approach, but I have the long term goal of internalizing tonalities (not just major/natural minor, but starting with those), hopefully to the extent that I can use them to improvise over complex changes without relying on simple devices like soling on the scale of the dominant chords, and also without a lot of conscious thought about the details.
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