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#1
01-30-2017, 04:01 PM
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Open C tuning CGCGCE
I am a beginner (playing 10 years age 63). I use CGCGCE a lot. The chords I use a lot are x5000x x02020x and 5x002x (virtually always picking).
Does anyone use this tuning? Can anyone explain how you get the low C string to sound in tune when fretted 5th fret from the capo? If the tuner shows its in tune its way off when fretted. (guitar is a Lowden 010). 
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#2
01-30-2017, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
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#3
01-30-2017, 05:42 PM
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Capo? What fret?
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above
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#4
01-31-2017, 03:10 AM
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capo at 6th fret. Most songs previously have been capo 2 and 5. Theres always a problem with this string but talking to the professional who's songs I cover he says tuning it is a compromise. What I think he means is tune it flat so that when its fretted 5 frets from the capo it will be in tune. In the latest song |I am trying the capo is at 6 which makes the note fretted at 5 a B. Even when fretting at the 5th on the 6th string creates a spot on B according to the tuner my wife moans its out of tune and I have to agree it just sounds 'odd'.
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#5
01-31-2017, 03:28 AM
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I don't use open tunings but a guitar should play in tune all the way up the neck if the saddle is positioned and adjusted correctly.
You can check the saddle by playing a 12th fret harmonic on the open string and comparing this with the string fretted at the 12th fret. They should be identical. Check it visually with a tuner, and fret the 12th fret as gently as possible. If this turns out to be OK the problem could be in the capo. If it is a sprung capo, it might be stretching the string as it presses between the two frets. If it is, try and get the capo actually just touching the fret. This might stop the stretching. If you have an adjustable capo try and get the minimum pressure needed to get a good sound on all the open strings. As already stated, a heavier sixth string might help but might adversely affect intonation.
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#6
01-31-2017, 03:32 AM
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Just a quick reply. I will try your suggestions -thanks. I have in the past been down the road of heavier gauges. I virtually only use this guitar for open C but in the rare even of tuning it to another tuning I use GADGBE I would fear for the guitar with a heavy gauge (perhaps unnecessarily?). Someone has suggested a fan-fretted guitar? Don't know if that would be better.
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#7
01-31-2017, 03:59 AM
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The saddle intonation check should be your first step. If this is correct the fault is in your capo. If the fretted string is sharp compared with the harmonic note then that is your problem. On an electric guitar with an adjustable set of saddles it's easy to fix. On the single bone or plastic saddle found on most acoustic guitars there can be a small amount of adjustment easily available. If that is not enough there can be work-arounds to fix it but bridges differ and there is no one fix that fits all.
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#8
01-31-2017, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
If you're going to sometimes tune the 6th up to G, you definitely shouldn't use the same string as when tuning it down to C. A string that won't snap when tuning up to G will be too loose (ie produce your intonation problem) when tuning down to C. So keep the heavier string for C (heavier than the usual 6th in whatever set you use), and fit a lighter one when you want to tune it up to G. Yes, it's a pain! That's a reason for having two guitars...  Keep one in CGCGCE and one in GADGBE. (If you wife thinks you can't possibly need ANOTHER guitar, just explain to her that it means she won't have to hear that out of tune 6th string any more...  )The advice about tuning the open string flat in order for fretted notes to be in tune is good - provided you're not playing the open string too much! In any case (given that you're using a capo), it's a sure sign the gauge is too light, and/or you're pressing too hard when fretting. (In open position, with no capo, a difference in intonation between open string and fretted notes can mean the nut is too high. With a capo, that's not relevant.) Accurate tuning is indeed a compromise, but it sounds like your issue is outside the usual threshold. It's just possible, as stanron says, that your saddle intonation is out. That should be checked anyway. On cheap guitars, it may even be that some frets are in the wrong place! (Hope it's not that.) A too-tight capo can sometimes cause an issue - you may have to check your tuning with the capo on - but that makes no difference to the intonation. If the saddle is good, it doesn't matter how tight the capo is: there shouldn't be a tuning difference between the open (capo'd) string and fretted notes.
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. Last edited by JonPR; 01-31-2017 at 06:15 AM.
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#9
01-31-2017, 06:41 AM
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What gauge strings are you using at the moment?
Are you tuning the open string then fitting capo, then checking again when fitted? Have you tried retuning to get an acceptable pitch by ear at the fretted note, then see if the open (capo'd) note is acceptable?
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#10
01-31-2017, 06:45 AM
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Checking the strings and I'm now wondering if I have put my sons electric strings on by mistake. They don't specify electric they are D'Addario EXL110-3D whereas I usually use D'Addarion medium phosphor bronze.
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#11
01-31-2017, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
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#12
01-31-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
I use CGCGCD and a tip I'll offer up is to have the low string intonated while the guitar is tuned down to low C rather than in standard tuning. I do a lot of dropped D and had fits with my 6th string, till my luthier suggested that he intonate the guitar in dropped D rather than standard, and it has improved it substantially (had all 4 of my acoustics intonated that way). The other thing I had to do was learn to use less pressure when playing the 6th string when down-tuned. Took me about 2 weeks to adjust. I was overpressing frequently and knew it, so I took the time to rework the pressure issue. Hope this adds…
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#13
01-31-2017, 08:53 AM
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I'm OK down to C with a 56 gauge string but at the limit if I try with a 53. Edit: The 3rd string is plain on the EXL110 strings not wound - I think - that should indicate clearly which set you have on. Last edited by RodB; 01-31-2017 at 09:24 AM.
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#14
01-31-2017, 09:36 AM
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I think mI'm on a steep learning curve will have to look up intonation.
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#15
01-31-2017, 02:46 PM
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I would go to a .058 or a .060 if I was to try low C. I find .56 tuned down one step to D to be pretty low tension, so low C would be worse. I guess my advice would be to forget the low C tuning and try another similar tuning that is closer to where the guitar was designed to be tuned. Particularly since you are capoing up so high. Why not just tune higher, and capo fewer frets?
Edit: I calculated the string tension. If you had a 25.5" scale length guitar, low D with a .056 is only around 23 lbs tension. Low C with a .060 is around 21 lbs tension. I prefer to see at least 24 or 25 lbs tension for good intonation on the wound strings.
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Brian Evans Around 15 archtops, electrics, resonators, a lap steel, a uke, a mandolin, some I made, some I bought, some kinda showed up and wouldn't leave. Tatamagouche Nova Scotia. Last edited by MC5C; 01-31-2017 at 02:53 PM.
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