Acoustic Amp vs church PA

[Doubleneck]

Have been using a dual pickup system for a little bit. A Lyric and a Magnetic in its second channel. My acoustic amp at home is a Genz Benz Compac 300, at church its my Dtar Solstice to church board. What I am noticing is I really like the magnetic pickup at home through the Genz Benz, almost more than the Lyric -( just slightly boxy). At church just the opposite, the Mag sounds much more electric, and the Lyric excels? Just use the mag slightly there to kick up the bass. Why such a difference?

[Goat Mick]

My first guess is that church is a much larger and brighter room. That changes the way sound frequencies are carried. Also all those bodies in the congregation soak up some sound waves. And most churches suspend their speakers from the ceiling. Room variables change things a lot when it comes to sound, that's why you always have to tweak for your environment.

As an experiment take your home set up to different rooms in your house and stand as far away from your amp as possible and play. I'll bet it sounds a lot different in the garage than it does in the bedroom.

[BoB/335]

As an experiment, take your amp to church and use the direct out from the amp to feed the PA.v You get to hear what YOU want.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

As an experiment, take your amp to church and use the direct out from the amp to feed the PA.v You get to hear what YOU want.

Hi BoB...

Your premise is good…

My suggestion is he pull the XLR feed for the Church PA, and the amp feed, both directly from the DTAR Solstice. Then he can adjust the amp any way he wants without affecting the sound in the PA, and the techs can set the house without adjustments to the amp affecting them.

If he pulls the feed from the amp, every change he makes (volume, tone etc) will be reflected in the house, and it can turn into a tug-o-war, or result in playing air guitar if the house tech gets miffed.

I love using my acoustic amp as my stage monitor, and run it behind me about 3-5 feet up on an X stand so it's about waist level. Projects better, and I can hear what I sound like without turning it up overly loud.

It's fun to experiment with sound.

[Doubleneck]

I remember reading in the Lyric literature somewhere that it does best through a PA. And that is what I am finding? The other side that baffles me is how different the mag sounds out of the house, I really don't think its the room as much as some balancing, impedence? (Probably not even the right term) as it goes to the board.

[noledog]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi BoB...

Your premise is good…

My suggestion is he pull the XLR feed for the Church PA, and the amp feed, both directly from the DTAR Solstice. Then he can adjust the amp any way he wants without affecting the sound in the PA, and the techs can set the house without adjustments to the amp affecting them.

If he pulls the feed from the amp, every change he makes (volume, tone etc) will be reflected in the house, and it can turn into a tug-o-war, or result in playing air guitar if the house tech gets miffed.

I love using my acoustic amp as my stage monitor, and run it behind me about 3-5 feet up on an X stand so it's about waist level. Projects better, and I can hear what I sound like without turning it up overly loud.

It's fun to experiment with sound.

+1...Larry makes good points here as I like to keep my sound/Fishman Loudbox Artist, eq'd on stage to what sounds good to me up there, then like Larry said the house can adjust to what sounds good out there which is usually different. However, I like to have someone play my guitar on stage so I can go out front and hear it and then ask the house to adjust anything I recommend tweaking too.

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi BoB...

Your premise is good…

My suggestion is he pull the XLR feed for the Church PA, and the amp feed, both directly from the DTAR Solstice. Then he can adjust the amp any way he wants without affecting the sound in the PA, and the techs can set the house without adjustments to the amp affecting them.

If he pulls the feed from the amp, every change he makes (volume, tone etc) will be reflected in the house, and it can turn into a tug-o-war, or result in playing air guitar if the house tech gets miffed.

I love using my acoustic amp as my stage monitor, and run it behind me about 3-5 feet up on an X stand so it's about waist level. Projects better, and I can hear what I sound like without turning it up overly loud.

It's fun to experiment with sound.

You know I knew that. Maybe when I finally start using my Solstice I will become more familiar with it.

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by noledog

+1...Larry makes good points here as I like to keep my sound/Fishman Loudbox Artist, eq'd on stage to what sounds good to me up there, then like Larry said the house can adjust to what sounds good out there which is usually different. However, I like to have someone play my guitar on stage so I can go out front and hear it and then ask the house to adjust anything I recommend tweaking too.

Good point to make an attempt to get the sound out front more to your liking. (notice I said "attempt")

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Good point to make an attempt to get the sound out front more to your liking. (notice I said "attempt")

Hi BoB...

First time on new systems, I take my older Boss RC-20XL looper along and record 2-3 minutes of various playing into it, then start the loop and go out and listen with the sound techs for them to make adjustments.

It's a good use of a looper & allows you to get a pretty accurate picture of your sound in the room.

[buzzardwhiskey]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

As an experiment, take your amp to church and use the direct out from the amp to feed the PA.v You get to hear what YOU want.

This is what I do. My guitar goes into a Unico then out to the PA. I adjust the volumes so that the Unico has perhaps 80% and the PA about 20%.

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi BoB...

First time on new systems, I take my older Boss RC-20XL looper along and record 2-3 minutes of various playing into it, then start the loop and go out and listen with the sound techs for them to make adjustments.

It's a good use of a looper & allows you to get a pretty accurate picture of your sound in the room.

Do you think the Looper colors your sound at all? My DigiTech JamMan has a Loop Volume and a Guitar Volume and I think it would be better if they both put out the same signal that's coming in with no Gain.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Do you think the Looper colors your sound at all? My DigiTech JamMan has a Loop Volume and a Guitar Volume and I think it would be better if they both put out the same signal that's coming in with no Gain.

Hi Bob...

No, I've done them with/without the looper and it doesn't alter my tone.

Only thing the looper changes is volume. I set the pass through (live) volume to match the volume without the looper. I set it so the loop volume is slightly less than my live sound, so my live sound always predominates slightly.

[Doubleneck]

Looper is excellent thought to see what is really being heard. Got one I really haven't used that much

[myersbw]

Elmicko got it. The Lyric is a mic. It's freq range will enhance more of the guitar's total response....BUT...you need the wider freq range of the PA to enjoy it. The magnetic is usually a bit more sterile in freq response. It does get some of the harmonics voiced by resonance back through the strings, but not near the whole range. And, a typical amp will be what it is...a single source point that is targeted for a range of so many feet. So, you can dial in a range that is pleasing to you...the local listener.

Now, back to the PA. When you get that larger push of volume, you get to appreciate the whole response of the guitar in a grand way. Yet, if you shove the more sterile mag thru it...you get just that...less total harmonic reproduction.

So, what you describe does make perfect sense.

BradM

[JazzyJ]

I know this is an old post but I thought I'd add my thoughts for others asking similar questions -

1) Most acoustic amps are in essence 'practice amps' - if you use them in a church building with an 80-100 foot high ceiling in a room that can hold 500-1000 people it's simply not going to cut it! Especially with so many amps having 5" and 8" speakers.

2) Even if you DI your amp to the house system you still might not be happy with your stage sound. An AER compact 60 battling against a rock drummer, a bass player and a piano player might not be able to deliver the 'full sound' you get at home with it!

3) The options are:

• Use the biggest and loudest acoustic amp with the biggest speaker you can find - Acoustic Image Ten2, Genz Benz, SWR, Carvin AG300 etc.)

• Use a keyboard/multi instrument amp - check out the Laney AH300, 300w with a 15" speaker!

• Slave your acoustic amp to another amp - a 300w keyboard amp with a 15" speaker or a bass stack, or an SRM450 Mackie. Then you have the sound you like but louder and 'fuller'

• Buy an acoustic preamp (the new Trace Elliot 'Transit A' looks great) and plug that into a powered speaker like a Mackie SRM450 v3 (1000w 12" speaker). This is probably the best idea of all!

Then you'll be able to have a stage sound that competes with drum kits and bass players, plus you'll have all the projection you need - and you can still go into the house system too!

Me? I'm going to try an old Trace TA50R (50w, 2x5") slaved to a Carlsbro Sherwood classic (via the effect return) (100w, 1x15", horn can be turned on/off) and DI to house system! It'll look like a 'head' and a 'cab'! If I can get the Sherwood recovered in black with a metal grill and a green Trace logo it would be 'rock acoustic'!