Any Advice on Portable Line Array PAs? (BOSE, etc)

[martingitdave]

Well done gents! My first reaction to the Maui 44 graph was that the male and female speech frequencies were right in top of each other with 4dB per line. That's amazingly good for singers or presenters, especially if you EQ well. There's more differentiation in high frequency, but that's to be expected. High frequency attenuates more quickly, I believe. It makes sense that you need a few feet away from the arrays to get the best sound. I'm actually surprised that the JBL appears to sound good close up. Cuki and I are going to do a little experiment with my new JBL.


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[DavidE]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

That's great. I'm experimenting with the XR12 Air through channel 1/2 . I plan to test the line channels 3/4 with XLR to TRS cables.

I thought I had it licked last night. But the gain staging is all wrong for the new speaker. I messed with it a little bit tonight and just made it worse.

For the time being, my Play Acoustic pedal sounds excellent (better than the XR mixer) through channel 1/2. It was the other way around yesterday. Usually, if I put something away for the night, it comes to me the next day.

The mic and guitar sound pretty good straight in with a little EQ and reverb from the onboard mixer.

This JBL unit was a good decision.


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Get the case thing if you keep the JBL. :-)

I took the JBL to a couple of gigs where I thought it wouldn't be loud enough. It was plenty loud at one gig and I supplemented with a small Alto TS110a on a pole using the other output on the mixer. Worked great.

[martingitdave]

I ordered the case this morning from Sweetwater! I think the obsession with max SPL is probably not important for acoustic players. We shouldn't be anywhere near max SPL with any systems we play. I think it's more about dispersion, penetration, clarity and frequency response.


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[TheShadowKnows]

Originally Posted by DavidE

The JBL has two spacers and the speakers can be at three different heights.

What I've found since I got mine is that the best coverage / projection is had when you use both spacers & the array. That puts the high end up 'high' & has that 'fog of sound' effect.

I've tried just the array into the subwoofer and it's fine for smaller venues or rooms. I believe the specs or marketing materials state it was designed to be used with at full height.

[TheShadowKnows]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Updating this thread with my newly found conclusions:

Between the two, the 10" woofer in the JBL looks like a better solution for my use. I don't need the extra SPL from dual 8"s, but the better frequency response from a 10" is attractive. The basic (2) XLR input mixer on the iP1000 looks better than the JBL for use with my mixer. I suppose I can set the JBLs to line, run the channels flat, and be satisfied.

I also like that the JBL built in mixer is more functional than the iP1000, if I just want to plug in and go. The two built in mixers each have a glaring omission. The JBL doesn't seem to have an independent sub control or low cut filter. While the iP1000 solves that issue, they have no individual channel EQ (just a master) and no reverb.

The JBL is lighter and MUCH easier to carry. The cost difference is in material to me. Looks like I'll probably walk out with the JBL tonight or tomorrow. Just have to put the other one back in the boxes! :-)

I like the JBL for the fact that it's 42.3 lbs & 1 stop shopping with the array & extensions fitting in the back of the box. It doesn't have a dedicated master treble / bass but you can dial down or up, those things on the mixer, which will sort of get you there. Plus for an extra C note, you can buy a padded roller bag made specifically for it, to protect it in transit.

And on a side note... I use the JBL for background music while I'm programming websites and it's simply great! (even in mono).

[TheShadowKnows]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

I continue to appreciate the insights shared within this thread.

Good to know. I really hate hearing power-supply hiss from PAs -- especially for acoustic music.

When I did an extensive test of the Harbinger at GC, I had it cranked pretty high & didn't notice any hiss. I walked by the array speakers several times. Maybe a bad unit, I'm guessing.

[TheShadowKnows]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

The only data I've seen comes from the plots Cuki sent from the pro sound magazine tests. I think Bose articulates the array in the L1M2.

But, my experience was more like yours. I can believe that these Mini arrays have better horiz. dispersion than conventional speakers, but I can't say that I've experienced 180 degrees. More like 120? The Harbinger I'm returning seems to be around 100 plus. Probably enough for many applications, especially if using two units.

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What I found in my extensive GC P.A. room tests was that with the Harbinger I couldn't be less than 6' in front of the array at the side to hear the high end. If not, it dropped off drastically.

The JBL Eon 1, maybe about 1' in front of the array at the side.

The Bose L1C, I could be perfectly even with the array & still hear the high end fine. But the Bose array top has all those crazy angled speakers so that probably has much to do with it.

I don't know how that translates into degrees of angle. I let my ears be the guide. Just my 2 cents worth (of testing).

[TheShadowKnows]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Get the case thing if you keep the JBL. :-)

I took the JBL to a couple of gigs where I thought it wouldn't be loud enough. It was plenty loud at one gig and I supplemented with a small Alto TS110a on a pole using the other output on the mixer. Worked great.

Great idea on supplimenting. I have a pair of Kustom PA50's + stands I could put in the back of my Mustang easily. Also might make a good floor monitor if need be.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by TheShadowKnows

When I did an extensive test of the Harbinger at GC, I had it cranked pretty high & didn't notice any hiss. I walked by the array speakers several times. Maybe a bad unit, I'm guessing.

Yes I am assuming a bad power supply. They evidently had a few come back. It did not hiss when I tested it either. I also ordered the JBL roller case. The money I saved on the unit was immediately returned to JBL for the bag. :-). They know their market, Huh?


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[NotValid]

How do these column speakers handle electric guitar? Not that I'm trying to amplify a rock band or anything but I wouldn't mind plugging in my electric through an amp simulator like the Boss GT100. Almost EVERY review of these things are from an acoustic perspective but what about electric?

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by NotValid

How do these column speakers handle electric guitar? Not that I'm trying to amplify a rock band or anything but I wouldn't mind plugging in my electric through an amp simulator like the Boss GT100. Almost EVERY review of these things are from an acoustic perspective but what about electric?

Not great. Some people are Ok with a jazz box or a very clean electric. I suppose it could work with an amp simulator. However, if you need a unit for both electric and acoustic, the Line 6 L2t is the best option, hands down. I know this because I sold the Line 6 and the JBL Eon One isn't the best electric guitar amp. It's OK for practice.

I'm think about buying an inexpensive (1) 8", or (2) 6.5" amp that will work for Acoustic and electric guitar to stick in the closet. I only play electric a few times a year in the band. I have a Line 6 Firehawk FX system with amp modeling, so a single cheap 8" full range speaker would probably also work. I could also use that amp/speaker with the Play Acoustic pedal on larger stages where I want to mic the speaker into a PA instead of using a DI.

But I've got many months to figure that out.

[zhunter]

I routinely run my electric through a pedal board with a dedicated amp/cabinet simulator direct into PAs. Currently I am using a Radial JDX Direct Drive or an A/DA GCS-2. I used to go direct to PA using the cheapest possible pedal, a Digitech RP70. I also have an overdrive pedal with a cab sim out. In each case I get usable results. I gig this way often.

Having said that, once a month I have to play through a house PA that consists of a line array tower system by a popular manufacturer. I am not sure why, but this is the worst my rig sounds. Which is not to say unacceptable, just thinner and a little brighter than I get through conventional PA systems. Since my expectations and needs are mine, take it with a grain of salt.

I think the short answer is, get the right cab sim, adjust it for the DI application and yes it will work.

hunter

[se7ent7]

I regularly play my Line6 Variax, Les Paul or strat through a Line6 Pod HD 500 into my Bose L1 Compact.

It's a great tone!! For me at least. Haven't tried with heavy distortion, I generally use classic lightly driven to crunchy tones. Classic rock, country and blues.

I Haven't tried to mic up an amp, but I'm sure it would sound fine if done correctly.

The very detailed full range sound of the Bose is very well suited to good amp modellers like the Pod HD, Helix, Eleven rack etc. imho.

[martingitdave]

That's good to hear. Perhaps, I haven't been doing it right.


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[NotValid]

Thanks for all the replies regarding electric guitar. The Boss GT100 has almost every kind of cab and amp available plus all the EQ options. It sounds like you really have to spend some time and dial it in to make it sound good on a portable line array. I almost bought a Palmer Fab 5, great little 5W tube amp but couldn't get the cleans I like out of it. Still no perfect solution. I will have to try out the line 6 speakers.