Re-amalgamating lacquer, how far can I take this?

[Bowie]

I have read Frank Ford's wonderful pages about using Cellosolve to repair checking in nitro finishes and it's very exciting to me. I've done a zillion poly fills and repairs with CA glue but I'm about to dive into nitro repair.
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...lgamator1.html
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...checkfill.html
I have been wondering, what are some other helpful applications and at what point do you just need to drop-fill or even re-finish?

Is it a good way to address common checking around inlays and purfling?

Do small scratches or tiny dings ever de-compress and fill back out when using this?

What can you warn me about using it?
And, how to you control running? Is there any tape that can be used to build a protective dam?
Thanks!

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by Bowie

And, how to you control running? Is there any tape that can be used to build a protective dam?
Thanks!

A checked surface is a checked surface, dissolving the lacquer to make it flow out a little IMO does very little to the overall appearance, the wood is still oxidised.

Steve

[Bowie]

Thanks, Steve.

Would love to hear some more experiences from members here.

[John Arnold]

It worked wonders on a 1935 L-50 that was weather checked with peeling. All the flaked lacquer laid back down and stuck, but it took about a month for the lacquer to fully harden back. I still had to drop fill the wider checks, so it is not a cure-all for the severe cases. But the fact that peeled lacquer can be re-attached is IMHO all you could hope for.
Butyl cellosolve is very toxic. wear gloves and a respirator, and don't splash it on bare skin.
The only advice I can give to prevent running is to position the surface you are working on as level as possible, and be very conserrvative when applying. You can always re-apply more later, after the lacquer absorbs some of it. Remember it is a very slow evaporating solvent, which is why it works so well to remelt old lacquer.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

It worked wonders on a 1935 L-50 that was weather checked with peeling. All the flaked lacquer laid back down and stuck, but it took about a month for the lacquer to fully harden back. I still had to drop fill the wider checks, so it is not a cure-all for the severe cases. But the fact that peeled lacquer can be re-attached is IMHO all you could hope for.
Butyl cellosolve is very toxic. wear gloves and a respirator, and don't splash it on bare skin.
The only advice I can give to prevent running is to position the surface you are working on as level as possible, and be very conserrvative when applying. You can always re-apply more later, after the lacquer absorbs some of it. Remember it is a very slow evaporating solvent, which is why it works so well to remelt old lacquer.

Thanks for that! I was starting to wonder if the incredibly talented Frank Ford was just making the impossible look easy again but it's good to know that others have had success.

Thanks for the tips as well.

[mirwa]

The end result on franks link is more IMO to do with the subsequent 3 or 4 finish coats of lacquer sanding and buffing them.

Has very little to do with the cellosolve.

All you are achieving with the cellosolve or retarder or even just spraying over the top with fresh nitro, is bonding of the lifted edges of the original finish.

Is still does not change the checked surface of the wood, on dark coloured woods does not look to bad, but light coloured woods, sorry looks like crap

Steve

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

the fact that peeled lacquer can be re-attached is IMHO all you could hope for.

My exact point.

An example, reflowing the original finish and then coats of clear and buffing and shining like glass, still does not diminish the fact it has a checked surface all over it. Some people like that look others do not.

Steve

[Dave Richard]

I used Frank's method, and the cellosolve, on the peeling, flaking lacquer, on the back of a '39 Epiphone Zenith.
I applied it, by spray, with the guitar level. It did cause the lacquer to flatten and readhere to the back. I let it dry a good long time, dry sanded it level, and applied several coats of satin lacquer. It ended up looking very good.
However: the back of the guitar is a laminate, or pressed, and I think that had something to do with the flaking/peeling, because the finish on the spruce top was lovely, and not flaking. Sides were checkered, but not flaking. By the time I sold the guitar, two years later, the back finish was beginning to check again, fairly heavily. So, be aware, the problem could reoccur.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by Dave Richard

I used Frank's method, and the cellosolve, on the peeling, flaking lacquer, on the back of a '39 Epiphone Zenith.
I applied it, by spray, with the guitar level. It did cause the lacquer to flatten and readhere to the back. I let it dry a good long time, dry sanded it level, and applied several coats of satin lacquer. It ended up looking very good.
However: the back of the guitar is a laminate, or pressed, and I think that had something to do with the flaking/peeling, because the finish on the spruce top was lovely, and not flaking. Sides were checkered, but not flaking. By the time I sold the guitar, two years later, the back finish was beginning to check again, fairly heavily. So, be aware, the problem could reoccur.

Thanks Dave, very helpful info.


To everyone, one of the main issues I run into with nitro is checking/lifting around purfling and inlays. Take a look at the lifting around those spots here and tell me if re-amalgamation is effective in spots like this, or how you would address it?
[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks!

[mirwa]

For that situation it will be more than fine, with additional lacquer work.

Steve

[Mr Fingers]

Hi, Bowie, and thanks for the great question and thanks to those who responded. I am no expert finisher but want to contribute a restoration approach mentioned by Dan Erlewine recently. (Everyone getting StewMac updates probably saw this.) Dan was repairing an old Gibson 00 and after doing all the structural work, mentioned that he was going to hit the guitar with a couple of passes of French polish to freshen it up. Since I was looking at a totally worn '36 at that moment -- bare spots, checking, scratches and nicks everywhere, really dull paint -- for which a refin was out of the question, I figured, what the heck. I did a very light pass w/ 800 --> 1500 paper and then did two French polish coats, and the result was amazing. All the wear remains visible, and there is extremely minimal buildup, but the old finish now has depth and luster again, there is no bare wood, and the whole instrument looks tied together in a really nice way. Though it sounds contradictory to say that the guitar retains its age and wear while simply looking beautiful, and not longer tired, that's the effort. I know many will not consider this, but if cellosolve is a means of returning a guitar to relatively new appearance, the French polish "refresh" (in this case anyway) can help retain age and wear while improving appearance in other ways.