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  #16  
Old 02-23-2017, 03:35 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
[size=2]Hi Hatter
I've taught fingerstyle guitar for nearly 37 years.
Hi LJ,

Sorry to hijack this thread. But as you teach fingerstyle I had a question.

I want to build up finger independence (and I guess it's also brain independence).

I want my thumb to play bass, while my fingers play both the melody and an underlying rhythmic section - perhaps a repeating arpeggio for example. I guess the thumb could be involved in the rhythm section as well as the bass. So really I want to split my playing into these 3 parts, which I assume means splitting it in my head as well.

I'll try a tabbed example here (bear in mind I've made this up in my head and haven't played it, so it might sound crap, I'm just trying to illustrate a point):

Code:
FULL PIECE
|-3---3-0---1-0---3---0-0-----3---|
|-----1-------1-------0-------0---|
|---2---2-----------0---0---------|
|---2-------2---2---0-------0---0-|
|-0-------0-----------------------|
|-----------------3-------3-------|
  1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

BASS
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
|-0-------0-----------------------|
|-----------------3-------3-------|
  1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

RHYTHM (REPEATING ARPEGGIO)
|---------------------------------|
|-----1-------1-------0-------0---|
|---2---2-----------0---0---------|
|---2-------2---2---0-------0---0-|
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
  1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

MELODY
|-3---3-0---1-0---3---0-3-----3---|
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
|---------------------------------|
  1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
Now of course, I realize that sometimes the melody will need to replace a note in the rhythm (arpeggio) section, but I'm trying to keep it simple to illustrate my point.

Hopefully this makes sense. But I'm wondering how to best train/practice this so I can split my playing into these 3 parts in my head and translate that to my fingers. There must be some exercises for this, or some guidance on how to make my own exercises. Cheers! (Is there a word for this technique?).

P.S. I can already sort of leave my thumb to do bass on autopilot while fingering some rhythmic arpeggios. I slip up here and there but I feel like I'm getting it sorta. But once I add in a melody line it's all lost

Last edited by s0cks; 02-23-2017 at 03:41 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-24-2017, 01:10 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Sorry to hijack your question from larry - and he's welcome to differ of course - but my recommendation is to forget about trying to make your thumb independent. It isn't and it will never be. It just feels that way once you've mastered the technique. The "independent thumb" method is what tends to result in the whole thing collapsing when you try and add more fingers to the pattern.
(I realised this after attempting to teach the independent thumb method myself, with no success. Eventually I did what I should have done to start with, and cast my mind back to how I learned to play, before it all became subconscious: and that was step by step with an entire pattern, not separating one part from another.)

So my advice is to learn the whole pattern one beat at a time - in vertical slices, if you will, rather than horizontal layers. Real slow. At each point in time, what are the thumb and fingers doing? Thumb only or thumb and finger(s)? which finger(s)? Step through it like that.
The idea is to keep thumb and fingers coordinated from the start - that's just how they work best, as a team. Work up to speed, and if the thumb does have a regular role (picking each beat) it will eventually feel as if it's independent, ticking away while the fingers do a more interesting job. But that's just the product of the process becoming subconscious - all together.

The problem of the pattern collapsing when you think you've got your thumb sorted first is that the thumb may be subconscious, but the (newly applied) fingers aren't. You're controlling them consciously, and the wires get crossed.

But yours is not an alternating bass pattern (so you really have hijacked the thread!), so the independent thumb idea doesn't really apply. And maybe you really shouldn't be designing pattern without playing them first anyway.... But - assuming this does turn out to be a good sounding one - the beat-by-beat learning process still applies: don't split into layers; split it into time-based slices. Your hand is not in 3 parts!
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Last edited by JonPR; 02-24-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-24-2017, 01:44 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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sOcks, you might practice some simple alternate thumb picking patterns to get those down. I would not divide your thinking
into melody, harmony, and bass line as far as technically learning to play something (you'll be lost). Save a bit of that for
expressing yourself musically more and more as you learn a piece (which may involve which notes to accent, play louder,
where to use timing variations, where to change the tone, etc.).
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  #19  
Old 02-26-2017, 02:35 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Ok guys, duly noted. I thought it might be possible because when it comes to alternating bass my thumb does seem to sit on autopilot while I play whatever melody comes to my head over it.

Last edited by s0cks; 02-26-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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