paypal fees and agreement

[stephenT]

Another forum I belong to recently made this announcement.

[RP]

Thanks talkgtr. Buyers and sellers on AGF need to get onboard with this. I've always paid PayPal fees when selling stuff - that's the price of doing business. Sellers: if necessary, raise your price to cover PayPal fees. Buyers: Refuse to do a transaction if the seller insists on Friends & Family PayPal...

[stephenT]

Originally Posted by RP

Thanks talkgtr. Buyers and sellers on AGF need to get onboard with this. I've always paid PayPal fees when selling stuff - that's the price of doing business. Sellers: if necessary, raise your price to cover PayPal fees. Buyers: Refuse to do a transaction if the seller insists on Friends & Family PayPal...

It's the only right thing. The Moderators are excellent at moderating the tone of conversation on the AGF, it'd be fitting (IMO) if they took a stand on this issue.

[chitz]

PayPal provides a valuable service with protections. They deserve the few bucks for safely managing the transactions.

NEVER use the "family & friends" option, unless you're sending $ to family or friends! Not merchandise.

[RP]

Originally Posted by talkgtr

It's the only right thing. The Moderators are excellent at moderating the tone of conversation on the AGF, it'd be fitting (IMO) if they took a stand on this issue.

I understand what you're saying, and it's probably worth a discussion on the other side of the curtain. However, it's been a fairly long standing policy that the model for the Classified sections is that of a cork bulletin board with index cards stuck on with thumbtacks. In this vein, it's largely up to buyers and sellers to be wary and do the right thing. That's why I suggested what I did above and not expect AGF Mods to monitor this. Having said that, I've long been opposed to those who post negative discussion type stuff in a Classified thread, but maybe members could/should/would do just that when a seller stipulates Friends & Family PayPal conditions (????)

[amyFB]

Sales of goods or services are typically considered to be business transactions that are subject to sales taxes.

Using the "friends and family" option when it is NOT friend or family, is bypassing the tax regulations.

What else is the seller bypassing if they aren't willing to comply with tax laws?

Originally Posted by amyFB

Sales of goods or services are typically considered to be business transactions that are subject to sales taxes.

Using the "friends and family" option when it is NOT friend or family, is bypassing the tax regulations.

What else is the seller bypassing if they aren't willing to comply with tax laws?

I don't see how sales tax is significant factor here. As far as I know, no state imposes sales tax on a private noncommercial sale of consumer goods. Autos, boats, etc. are different. That would apply to the majority of what I see on forum sales, unless of course the seller is running a business and filing tax as such. Even then, most internet sales outside of the seller's state would be exempt as well.

I think the issues are buyer protection and PayPal fees. As I said in an earlier post, if the PayPal User Agreement prohibits the use of the "friends and family" option for private sales, I cannot find it. The only reference is pasted below. A seller is not allowed to request payment by that method.

This may seem like splitting hairs, but if we're talking about right and wrong, then there must be some basis for that determination. The most reasonable basis for that would be the PayPal User Agreement, which is a contract between PayPal and the end user.

Receiving personal payments

If you use your PayPal account to receive payments for the sale of goods and services or accept donations, you must not ask your buyer to send you money using the “send money to a friend or family member.” If you do so, PayPal may remove your PayPal account’s ability to accept payments from friends or family members.

[muscmp]

well, as much as i'd love to have the amp, i thought it wise to pass on it.

here is my response to him.

i think i'd better pass for now even tho i'd love to have the amp. maybe we can work things out later as i've never had anyone suggest the fees be paid by me or the family and friends thing. it is the seller's responsibility.
thanks,

his response back.

Not a problem , I'm in no hurry to sell and these amps go for $700.00 plus on ebay (and not in this condition)...just putting out feelers on the forum first. Everyone has a price to use their service these days...the best way is old school in my book. Like I said before a money order is fine with me, whatever you decide. Shipping is not a walk in the park anymore either these days.

play music!

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I don't see how sales tax is significant factor here. As far as I know, no state imposes sales tax on a private noncommercial sale of consumer goods. Autos, boats, etc. are different. That would apply to the majority of what I see on forum sales, unless of course the seller is running a business and filing tax as such. Even then, most internet sales outside of the seller's state would be exempt as well.

I think the issues are buyer protection and PayPal fees.

todd,
hi i agree that buyer protection and fees are the most visible discussed reasons for choosing family and friends.

for the tax side of things, this FAQ on what triggers a 1099 from paypal to a user was interesting to me.

Basically unless you transact over 20,000 (twenty thousand dollars) per year, or 200 transactions, it won't apply to you - https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/a...ement-faq729/3

Amy, that could certainly be true in some cases. I do get the idea that the casual seller is more interested in avoiding fees.

[Airstrummer]

I will not send money thru Paypal as a "gift". I rarely actually know the seller and want all the protection I can get if things go sour. If people continue to abuse it surely Paypal will end up removing that option.

I don't think there's any danger of them removing it. Too many happy customers use it for it's intended purpose. Likewise most retailers avoid it. They want buyers to use the goods and services method because it allows them to access other convenient features such as invoicing and shipping. For them it's part of the cost of doing business, and they benefit from it.

[harleycaptain]

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure the seller is "not allowed" to charge the buyer for PayPal fees. If a seller is offering PayPal as an option, he must pay the fees according to the "fine print." I notice ads all the time that demand the buyer pay the fees and cringe each time I read one.
I am writing this before re reading the PayPal agreement, but I am pretty sure I am right about this.

The nice thing about the protection for the buyer is PayPal will pretty much back the buyer in all disputes. So, as a seller of a guitar, you expose yourself to a return for virtually any reason if you pay the fees. Thus, a lot of sellers request "friends and family" payment to avoid unreasonable returns.

Sellers should price their guitars assuming they will be paying the fees, and buyers should understand it benefits them to use PayPal protections. Sellers should be sure their buyer is not setting their expectations unreasonably high regarding condition, tone, etc. Or, just offer friends and family payments and so be it. I would consider any forum member a "friend".

[harleycaptain]

I guess it is only not allowed on Ebay sales to tell buyers to pay PayPal seller fees. Otherwise it's negotiable.