Looking for a nice set of Brazilian Kingwood

[N K Forster]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

My points are:


If the wood were of the more palatable nature, it should have come with the CITES documentation already in place, not as an after thought. The fact that the documentation can be bought after the fact just shows how corrupt the system actually is.


Each person then lives with the burden of responsibility they re willing to shoulder, but naivety is not longer viable. IMO, or course.

Having never used any rosewoods from Madagascar in 30 years of guitar making, I can say I am not a part of that particular problem. I stopping buying any freshly sawn rosewood in 2007 once I saw the wake of legal (not illegal) logging in India. Since then the only rosewoods I've bought have been the old stock of other makers or in one case, the old stock of a spruce dealer who dipped their toe into the rosewood market in the 80's and didn't enjoy the experience.

As for wood "should" come with documentation in place, maybe it should, but it doesn't. It may work that way in the US, but it doesn't as far as I am aware in Europe.

Germany has an office for CITES in many towns (the UK has one for the whole country, at Kew) as a result most makers in Germany can expect a CITES inspection every now and again. When I received my CITES inspection by the German authorities and my stock of rosewood and mahogany was given "the green light", I wasn't issued with a pile of nice certificates I could pop in the string box when I sold an instrument. Rather, I was awarded the right (in writing) to apply for individual certificates whenever I wished to sell or transport cross-border, the woods or an instrument containing said woods. In each case, the new owner had to be named. The inspection provides the German authorities with a list of certified stock with which they can cross reference any request.

So in Germany at least, you don't get a nice certificate you can write someone's name in, and pass on. You simply have the right to go through another time consuming bureaucratic process which comes with a fee. Timber dealers are in the same position. Passing this cost on is perfectly reasonable. Not applying for certificates and avoiding the extra work for a customer who doesn't want or need the certificate is perfectly reasonable too.

In Germany, where espen.de are, having pre-prepared certificates simply was not/is not an option in my experience to date.

Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Schau_ins_Regal]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

If you don't care about these things, then you are part of the problem. I am not saying that no wood should change hands w/o documentation, I am saying that we should all care about these things and do what we can to understand how the wood got to us. Each person then lives with the burden of responsibility they re willing to shoulder, but naivety is not longer viable. IMO, or course.

Bruce, I said I do not care of the CITES certificate because I do not need it, not because I want to support illegal harvesting.

I understand your point though. Will think about it in the future.

[Ovation1]

I see you have 2 Madagascar rosewood sets listed for sale in your “Wood Locker” page, Bruce. Did they come with CITES certificate?

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by Ovation1

I see you have 2 Madagascar rosewood sets listed for sale in your “Wood Locker” page, Bruce. Did they come with CITES certificate?

They did not. I acquired them years before I had heard of CITES. By the way, my sets are not "for sale" per se, but rather are available in guitars my customers spec with me. While I have CITES documentation for only one set I have on hand, I am VERY in touch with the process which brought most, but sadly not all, of my wood to me.

[Ovation1]

Thank you.