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  #16  
Old 04-23-2017, 11:38 AM
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JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickoid_1 View Post
You can clearly see the crack in the photo of the side. The duct tape is not a satisfactory repair, IMO. The crack should be cleated.
The OP doesn't say that the crack in the photo is in the same area as the black tape, just that it's a photo of '2 small side-cracks'.

But my first thought was that the black tape was a bad attempt at shoring-up a crack, and I still think that's likely the case.
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  #17  
Old 04-23-2017, 11:59 AM
Mr Fingers Mr Fingers is offline
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I think Wade Hampton is correct about both the goo and the black material.The cracks look like the normal product of mistreatment. I would definitely cleat the cracked side and can't imagine why you wouldn't, since it's a totally easy job, has no tonal consequence, and if it gets worse, in that location, a later fix will be much more challenging. None of us can use pictures to trace the problem revealed by the creaking sound. We're just guessing. But no guitar should creak, and if it is a loose brace or worse, and you leave it be, it may well be that you'll find out what's wrong through a successive symptom: a bulge, crack, or failure over time.
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  #18  
Old 04-23-2017, 03:19 PM
Aden Aden is offline
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Default NGD Martin - What is going on here?

Guys some great replies here thanks so much! I will get some full body pics up soon as I can. Yes the pic of the small side crack is not above the black mystery patch.

So what all should be done to this old girl? "Cleave" the side cracks? Remove gunk on block. Black patch removal??


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  #19  
Old 04-23-2017, 06:48 PM
OneMansGuitar OneMansGuitar is offline
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I am thoroughly convinced the M&T neck was an inferior design. However, I understand why some people say a traditional dovetail is a bad neck joint, since it is going to need reset eventually at great expense, compared to a bolt-on neck that takes two hours if that and costs a lot less. But the fact is nothing sounds like a dovetail joint guitar. Of course some claim they can't hear the differences. Just like some claim they can't hear the difference between Sitka and Adirondack or mahogany and rosewood.

But for the M&T, it required two extra braces and a bolt to hold it in place, and it has considerably less connection between the neck and the neck block and body, so there is little to no transfer of energy between the twp, compared to the dovetail. And it was often difficult to reset, especially compared to a true bolt-on neck like you have at Huss & Dalton and Taylor. So while it did not require the same skill to make or reset, it could still be time consuming, and the plywood block would often chip or split.

As for sound, they sound just fine when played lightly. Played hard and they are very loud, but also very brash and bright, relative to similar guitars with dovetails. And the unwound trebles do not have the same purity of tone, they distort and sound raspy.

The main notes stand out clearly, and do not waver as much - which is a sound many people like and which makes Collings and others a lot of money - but there is nowhere near the same inter mingling of the high harmonics and undertone with the fundamental voice, which you get in full dovetail guitars like Martins, Gibsons, and Santa Cruz.

But there are many people who feel traditional Martins and Santa Cruz et al sound "muddy" compared to the separation and very straight as an arrow fundamental notes you get with non-dovetail guitars.

On the other hand, the less complex voice of the M&T Martins have fewer feed back issues, so they work very well with pick up systems in large venues, particularly with Indian rosewood guitars that have all that busy overtone stuff going on.

The Simple Dovetail that replaced the M&T isn't that much bigger in terms of the tenon, but it widens like a golf tee near the top for a much more secure anchor that does not need the extra "A frame" braces. And they sound better to my ear too. Fuller, and with better trebles, even if they do not sound as thick in terms of the undertone swell and marrying with the fundamentals.

Last edited by OneMansGuitar; 04-23-2017 at 06:55 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-23-2017, 06:52 PM
OneMansGuitar OneMansGuitar is offline
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I still say you don't need to do anything to it. If the gunk bothers you, try cleaning it off.

Many side cracks just need glue, not cleats. Some repair people actually glue it and then use a patch similar to mole skin.

It will not hurt to take it to someone and get an estimate.

But if it has been there like that for years it will likely remain stable. I had an MC-28 that had a variety of cracks in the cutaway etc. My 000-C16 has splits on each side of the pickup jack and a couple of other little cracks. It came that way. It sounds fine and the cracks stay the same.
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  #21  
Old 04-24-2017, 12:53 PM
Aden Aden is offline
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Seeing as this is also a NGD thread here are some pics of the old girl..




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  #22  
Old 04-24-2017, 10:28 PM
Aden Aden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMansGuitar View Post
Otherwise your 1989 D-16 M is a very nice find. They made 660 that year, and just under 1,500 between 1986 and 1990....

The 16s before the change to Mortis and Tenon neck joint and satin finish are not as much a bargain as they once were, now that more people know about them. But they are still a great value for the kind of tone they put out.

The seller sold this D-16m to me as a 1986 model - not that I mind it being 1989 but it would be nice to know the truth.

It came with an LR. Baggs Element system installed and I paid around $1100 with OHSC hope that is a fair deal?


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