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  #16  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:47 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Hi Ted, since you asked... yes, I had the chance to play a Blackbird Rider and a CA Cargo at Michael's place (before he closed it) a few years ago. Going from memory, the Cargo was comfortable, but felt small on the fretboard, with the 22.75" scale. I remember it sounded decent. I didn't have a strap to try the Rider, and the odd shape was slippery feeling on my knee. The neck was comfortable, but I remember liking the sound of the Cargo better... but that was a few years ago.

That said, I was having Michael install a bone saddle on the Shorty I bought from you, so I was more focused on the sound of that.

You probably know what I'm going to say about a travel size CF guitar, and that being the Emerald X7 is my favorite. I know you were an Emerald dealer years ago; Emerald changed the layup on the soundboard of the X7 at some point, making the bass response more full. Have you tried the latest X7? From my perspective, it is the best combination of sound and feel in a compact size.

Nice that there are a lot of great options out there.

Best wishes,
Jim
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:43 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Yes, the short scale of the Cargo is a little different, Jim, and the Rider definitely needs the Neck Up strap to achieve it's full potential if played sitting down. Surprised Michael didn't set it up that way for you. We actually include a Neck Up with every Rider we sell.

It's been a couple of years since an X7 came through the store, not sure if it had the new soundboard or not, but if you're telling me that the current X7 can compete tonally with a Cargo, than I would love to try one.
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:57 PM
mkatz mkatz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
Have you tried the latest X7? From my perspective, it is the best combination of sound and feel in a compact size.

Best wishes,
Jim
A couple of weeks ago I received a new X7 and have been very pleasantly surprised with how it plays and sounds. I also own a Blackbird Rider that I bought from Ted and was not expecting the X7 to sound as good. IMO, it not only sounds as good but is more comfortable to play.

I guess I'll have to keep both!

Mitch
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2017, 10:03 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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An update on this, it appears that production of the Alpaca has ceased, for now anyway.
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2017, 03:06 PM
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I'm not surprised that the Alpaca production has ceased. I never played an Alpaca, but I know that the surviving cf guitar makers have all paid some pretty heavy dues to successfully reach where they are now.
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  #21  
Old 04-04-2017, 04:13 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
I'm not surprised that the Alpaca production has ceased. I never played an Alpaca, but I know that the surviving cf guitar makers have all paid some pretty heavy dues to successfully reach where they are now.
Not sure what you mean by that, Evan.
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  #22  
Old 04-04-2017, 06:48 PM
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Ted;

I mean that it's not easy. The French company, Voyage Instruments, had some beautiful prototypes, but when it cam to actually producing their visions they faltered.

The cf guitar companies that have succeeded have worked hard to bring their visions to life. Rainsong has been in for the long run and has made it in my book--but not without its trials and tribulations.

Blackbird has really stretched out and brought to life some incredible guitars, but has also faced some incredible resistance to new guitar forms and materials. Emerald has faced the difficulties of new design as well as innovative forms of marketing. Peavey has faced the difficulty of taking on the quality control of some remarkably innovative guitars. Journey has taken some remarkable steps backwards in order to bring out an innovative cf guitar.

I see the difficulties of making guitars with new materials and new designs and I am not surprised when a particular design or material does not make it. Alpaca may come back, but if it does it's because of persistence of vision and a lot of hard work.
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2017, 07:08 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Any business has to adapt to the market. I see carbon fiber as a niche... my gut feeling is it will be a growing niche as more people get to see/hear/play these instruments. A really small CF is a niche within a niche... the Alpaca is just unusual enough in its looks that (from my perspective) a buyer is going to have to have a particular use for it. Not sure if there are enough backpacking guitar players who want carbon fiber to make that niche within a niche within a niche a viable business. If there are enough buyers and they can scale the business to grow or shrink and still be profitable, they will be back. But, they may have figured out there simply isn't enough market.

I don't have any inside knowledge on this. Didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, either. But, we did have some successful businesses in our workin' days.
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  #24  
Old 04-05-2017, 08:45 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Evan, to me, what you are describing is just business, not paying dues. For a manufacturer to succeed, they need amongst other things, a demand for the product at a price that allows for profit and growth, and the desire to build, market, and sell that product. If you have a good product, you can become a major player very quickly. Journey started building their Overhand models just a few year ago and the guitars are now out selling everyone except Rainsong. I don't have any first hand knowledge of the difficulties you are describing with Blackbird and Rainsong, but I do know Emerald shut down production for a few years after first opening.


Jim, I'm told Alpaca built around 25 guitars a month, but had orders for over 40 a month, which I believe is more than Emerald builds with their combined offerings, so demand for the guitars was definitely there.
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  #25  
Old 04-05-2017, 06:20 PM
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Ted;

You are right,. What I should have said is that "business is not easy." I have attended stockholders meetings of one of the riches U.S. companies, and I have a number of friends in small businesses, and everyone says there are some pretty heavy dips. I don't think that CF makers have missed those dips. CA/Peavey had a hard fall. Emerald had a hard fall. Rainsong has had models that went nowhere. Business is not easy.
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:41 AM
Fixedgear60 Fixedgear60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the difficulties you are describing with Blackbird and Rainsong, but I do know Emerald shut down production for a few years after first opening.
Just to jump in on this thread... Emerald did not shut down because of lack of demand for their guitars... my understanding was that they were outsourcing their fretboards and that supplier became unreliable and they had to redesign to bring that inhouse.
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2017, 09:35 AM
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Fixed;

I think you describe one of Alistair's first melt-downs. I think he had a later problem dealing with the need for greater investment. Composite Acoustics was a good example of how difficult business can be. On the old MacNichol site there was once a montage of the many Rainsong guitars that were marvelous but did not market well. Journey's move into CF was painful and involved a number of set-backs before the product met the quality standards set by the company.

If Alpaca makes a come back, it will take the same kind of perseverance I associate with the successful CF makers. It's not just that it's difficult bringing CF to the guitar market, it's tough starting and maintaining any business.
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2017, 09:42 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Ted;

Evan, you are right,. What I should have said is that "business is not easy." I have attended stockholders meetings of one of the riches U.S. companies, and I have a number of friends in small businesses, and everyone says there are some pretty heavy dips. I don't think that CF makers have missed those dips. CA/Peavey had a hard fall. Emerald had a hard fall. Rainsong has had models that went nowhere. Business is not easy.
You are right, business is not easy, if it was everyone would be self employed.

I still don't think you should be lumping Rainsong in with CA and Emerald. Emerald literally had to go back to the drawing board and start a new business with a new business model, and CA had to close completely. Rainsong may have had a couple of models that were discontinued, the Jazz and the Classical are the only ones I can think of, but every builder has those. Heck, Martin has dozens and dozens of discontinued models. They used to have a dedicated section on their website for them.

BTW, the Jazz and the Classical were very much ahead of their time, and I think both models would do well today. My guess is that it would cost too much to get these models back in the lineup, but I sure would like to see them make a comeback.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixedgear60 View Post
Just to jump in on this thread... Emerald did not shut down because of lack of demand for their guitars... my understanding was that they were outsourcing their fretboards and that supplier became unreliable and they had to redesign to bring that inhouse.
Fixed, as noted already, there are a number of reasons why a manufacturer might decided to close, no one suggested Emerald closed due to lack of demand. As you can see by my previous post, apparently there was plenty of demand for the Alpaca. If the Alpaca was profitable at $799, my guess is we have not seen the last of this cool little guitar.
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2017, 08:03 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
You are right, business is not easy, if it was everyone would be self employed.

...

As you can see by my previous post, apparently there was plenty of demand for the Alpaca. If the Alpaca was profitable at $799, my guess is we have not seen the last of this cool little guitar.
This reminds me of a business consultation I was doing with guy who photographed weddings. Looking at his costs, I showed him where he was losing about $50 on each wedding, before paying himself.

I said, "You know what you have to do, right?"

"Yeah - I need to shoot more weddings!"

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  #30  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:22 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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"Lose a little on every deal, and make it up in volume."
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