Speaker Quest: The Saga Continues

[gfa]

So, I decided to upgrade my band's PA. Did a lot of reading and asking questions here and elsewhere. Narrowed the field down to a few candidates. Went to the local shop. Of the models I was interested in, they only had the QSC K and Yamaha DBX series. Settled on a pair of K10s. I liked them much better than the DBXs, and preferred 10s to 12s. After a lot of post-selection standing around at the shop, it turned out that they didn't actually have any K10s in stock, just the demo speaker. They said it would take about 2 weeks to get a pair in, and offered to loan me a pair of K12s in the interim. Paid for the K10s and brought home the K12s, along with a MG10XU mixer (wanted an A&H Zed, but they didn't have those). This system sounded great to my ear. Acoustic guitar (played into an Ear Trumpet Labs LDC mic) sounded fantastic. Everything was very clear and accurate sounding. Plenty of power for anything we'd be doing.

One week later, the shop called. Turns out they cannot get any more K10s. They said QSC said they are soon to release a replacement for the whole K series. Dang. What to do?

I went to the only other local store selling PA gear; a large chain. Currently undergoing some construction, so the PA gear is out on the floor with the electric guitars, keyboards, etc. No patch bay. In short, a truly crappy environment to audition speakers. They had no K10s, but did have a K12 on the floor. I used that to A/B a JBL PRX 12. I liked the QSC much better. Then I tried an EV ZLX-12 against the QSC, and actually liked the EV better. It had a little more warmth, punch, something that just sounded more musical to me. Mind you, this is on a very noisy sales floor, playing an MP3 through my phone (a bootleg live Welch & Rawlings). The EVs were about 1/2 the price of the K12s. Better yet, they had an open box on one, and knocked another $100 off. I brought a pair of ZLX's home.

With the loaner K12s still here, I was able to A/B them with the ZLXs. Still just using MP3 out of my phone because there was no one here to play into the system. The QSCs definitely sounded better than the ZLXs here at home. Most noticeably, the bass is tighter and there's much more headroom. The mids sound different, but I don't have the vocabulary to describe the difference. Not necessarily worse, just different. But, with a little tweaking I was able to clean up the bass on the ZLXs. Not too shabby. Not [I]that[I] inferior to the QSC, particularly since they cost about 1/2 as much.

I returned the loaner K12s and got a refund for the K10s. The big chain where I got the ZLX's has a return policy that allows a full cash refund within 45 days. So, now I'll test the EVs out with the band, fiddle with them, and contemplate what to do.

Just venting and rambling here, thanks for reading along.

[JStotes]

Interesting about QSC maybe having new models. I've not been a huge fan of the current line up so maybe that's a good thing.

I was in a music store the other day and a guy was testing out the new Presonus Air speakers. They sounded very good and seem to be quite affordable. Were very good on their own but sounded excellent with the sub-woofer added.

[pipedwho]

All speakers need to be EQed for the room. That includes installed sound, portable PAs, and monitors. Proximity to walls/floor changes bass response, the room dimensions cause resonances and nulls that need to be catered to, wall/floor/roof/contents can absorb/reflect some frequencies more than others (particularly treble is lost with more people/carpet in the room, etc.

Many PA speakers have a little 'typical' EQ already applied. For example floor monitors expect to be coupling bass with the floor, so they roll off bass (some general purpose powered speakers even have a switch to enable the bass cut for you). The same speaker on a tall poll will usually need the bass put back in (or the bass cut switch set to off).

With todays 'pro-sumer' powered PA speakers, they can mostly all be made to sound 'correct' for the room if you have a decent graphic or 6 band parametric in your chain. So when auditioning them, test for other aspects rather than just the overall frequency response. For example, listen for harsh highs that can't be dialled out without losing sparkle, weak mids at volume due to cross over issues, distortion at high volume, phase alignment / nulls in the response pattern, horizontal/vertical directivity pattern, etc.

A relatively 'flat' response is useful as some strange resonances (boom, honk, mud, etc) can be annoying to have to dial out every time. But, most of the powered speakers in this price range are already pretty good in this department.

If you're looking at alternative designs like a line array versus a conventional point source speaker, then you want to consider the 'throw' both horizontal and depth. That should match the environments that you are going to use it in, and of course will change how you set it up, position it, and where you stand relative to the speaker(s).

[martingitdave]

Return it all. Use what you've got for the time being and wait for the new QSC 10s'. I'm with you regarding the musical quality of 10's versus 12's for acoustic music. You might want to find another sound retailer, and call ahead to review their stock. You can also consider getting the K10s at the closeout price from an online retailer, since you know you like them. These are listed as used. I believe they use the term "used" to get around MAP pricing. You'd need to call to confirm. I've bought from them and it was fairly painless.

http://www.proaudiostar.com/qsc-k10-active-speaker.html

[gfa]

Dave, knowing that you have been on an epic PA quest, I'm curious about your thinking. Why return it all?

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[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by gfa

Dave, knowing that you have been on an epic PA quest, I'm curious about your thinking. Why return it all?

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I wouldn't go by me. I'm a head case. :-).

I was referring to returning the speakers you were unsatisfied with. Based on what you wrote, you were unhappy with the EV 12s and I figured you should go with what your gut tells you to do. You can wait for the next release of the QSC K10s, but my guess is that they are just adding features, not re-engineering the sound. Seems to me, QSC really got the formula right.


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[gfa]

I'm liking the EVs more now that I've had some time to do some knob twiddling. One big improvement was changing the "pole/monitor/bracket" setting on the DSP from "pole" to "monitor." In the pole position, it adds some bass boosting EQ. To my ear, that muddied things up. Should have a chance to audition with the band later this week. I am optimistic.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by gfa

I'm liking the EVs more now that I've had some time to do some knob twiddling. One big improvement was changing the "pole/monitor/bracket" setting on the DSP from "pole" to "monitor." In the pole position, it adds some bass boosting EQ. To my ear, that muddied things up. Should have a chance to audition with the band later this week. I am optimistic.

Oh, that's really good news. Hopefully, you like them with the band. That DSP stuff is very effective.


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[varmonter]

Any reason you could not have kept the k12 loaners?
I traded my k12 for k10. Strictly on a weight/bulk basis.
If your younger and your vehicle is big enough i think
The k12s are a great sounding pair.more bass then the
10s and better sounding than most out there.plus they
Will fill a room better than most line array...they are big.
Their only fault really.

[gfa]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Any reason you could not have kept the k12 loaners?
I traded my k12 for k10. Strictly on a weight/bulk basis.
If your younger and your vehicle is big enough i think
The k12s are a great sounding pair.more bass then the
10s and better sounding than most out there.plus they
Will fill a room better than most line array...they are big.
Their only fault really.

They had new K12s in stock. But I prefer K10s for size, weight, and (I think) sound. The parenthetical is because I haven't been able to A/B the 10s and 12s with our actual setup. So then, why would I buy the EV 12s? The EV doesn't come in a 10. At about 1/2 the cost of the Ks, I'm willing to take the 12s in an EV. At least for now, still need to try them with the band.

[gfa]

Buying new gear should be fun, right? I'm so frustrated ...

After the saga above, trying out the ZLXs, they seemed ok. I wanted something a bit better than ok. Decided to take advantage of the Big Chain Store 45 day return policy. I was intrigued with the EV ELX series. Alone (or nearly so) among speakers in this general price range, they use wood cabinets. Consistent reports are that they sound warmer than the ZLX and other speakers in this price range. Me, I think warm is good. Big Chain Store website says they have the ELX in stock at the store near me. So, I pack up the Zs and take them to the store to upgrade to ELX. After a lot of standing around, they figure out they don't actually have the ELX in stock. They offer to order them, delivered to me, with expedited shipping. OK, sounds good. Order confirmation email #1 has them shipping to the store. I call to get that fixed. Order confirmation email #2 has the right address, but shows the order still in "processing" the next day. I call about that. Lots of hemming and humming on the phone, but the sales rep tells me they will ship out on Monday for delivery on Wednesday. Yesterday (Monday) evening I check order status and find that it's still in processing, and they have added a $135 shipping charge! I call about that (mind you, each of these phone calls is long, with lots of hold time) and they say sorry, we'll fix the shipping charge. I ask about the shipping status and get put on hold for so long that I eventually just hang up. Then I get another email telling me that they're backordered! I canceled the order. Ordered them from Amazon. They'll be here in two days, with no shipping charge.

Venting over. Carry on.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by gfa

Buying new gear should be fun, right? I'm so frustrated ...



After the saga above, trying out the ZLXs, they seemed ok. I wanted something a bit better than ok. Decided to take advantage of the Big Chain Store 45 day return policy. I was intrigued with the EV ELX series. Alone (or nearly so) among speakers in this general price range, they use wood cabinets. Consistent reports are that they sound warmer than the ZLX and other speakers in this price range. Me, I think warm is good. Big Chain Store website says they have the ELX in stock at the store near me. So, I pack up the Zs and take them to the store to upgrade to ELX. After a lot of standing around, they figure out they don't actually have the ELX in stock. They offer to order them, delivered to me, with expedited shipping. OK, sounds good. Order confirmation email #1 has them shipping to the store. I call to get that fixed. Order confirmation email #2 has the right address, but shows the order still in "processing" the next day. I call about that. Lots of hemming and humming on the phone, but the sales rep tells me they will ship out on Monday for delivery on Wednesday. Yesterday (Monday) evening I check order status and find that it's still in processing, and they have added a $135 shipping charge! I call about that (mind you, each of these phone calls is long, with lots of hold time) and they say sorry, we'll fix the shipping charge. I ask about the shipping status and get put on hold for so long that I eventually just hang up. Then I get another email telling me that they're backordered! I canceled the order. Ordered them from Amazon. They'll be here in two days, with no shipping charge.



Venting over. Carry on.

LOL. You sound like me!


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[gfa]

"LOL. You sound like me."

I know. It's scaring me.

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