My songs to learn, maintain list - what's yours?

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

An advantage to learning these guys' arrangements is developing the "chops" to come up with your own (not "you" Silly, but "you" anybody learning these tunes). As I understand what TBman has said in other posts, he is still developing those chops, even though his recordings indicate he does play well.

Tony

All the instrumental arrangements I play are my own. Simple matter, really. Find the progression of an original and embellish it to taste. Think recipe. From there it will evolve as a learning tool.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Pitar

All the instrumental arrangements I play are my own. Simple matter, really. Find the progression of an original and embellish it to taste. Think recipe. From there it will evolve as a learning tool.

I am a bit skeptical. I think there is much merit to the other posters in this thread who are learning tunes and studying to improve themselves. When I listen to the players that I admire, especially those who do their own arranging, it seems they have studied fretboard harmony as well as the work of other players. I know that for a writer, having a limited vocabulary will limit their ability to express themselves, and see no difference with musicians. there is always more to learn.

Maybe I am way off base here and completely fooled, but then I heard Chet Atkins talk about this, Tommy Emmanuel, Muriel Anderson, and many others, both here in this forum and elsewhere. In our own forums, read posts from Doug Young, Toby Walker, min7b5 (Eric Skye), and other accomplished players. So, color me skeptical. Join the arranging study group thread and show us your arrangement of "When You Wish Upon A Star". The more folks sharing in that thread, the better for everybody.

Tony

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I am a bit skeptical. I think there is much merit to the other posters in this thread who are learning tunes and studying to improve themselves. When I listen to the players that I admire, especially those who do their own arranging, it seems they have studied fretboard harmony as well as the work of other players. I know that for a writer, having a limited vocabulary will limit their ability to express themselves, and see no difference with musicians. there is always more to learn.

Maybe I am way off base here and completely fooled, but then I heard Chet Atkins talk about this, Tommy Emmanuel, Muriel Anderson, and many others, both here in this forum and elsewhere. In our own forums, read posts from Doug Young, Toby Walker, min7b5 (Eric Skye), and other accomplished players. So, color me skeptical. Join the arranging study group thread and show us your arrangement of "When You Wish Upon A Star". The more folks sharing in that thread, the better for everybody.

Tony

I spent many years learning the arrangements of others, and also playing in alternate tunings. I feel like I became more or less a bad playback machine. I could never play anything as well as the original, and I don't feel like I learned much. And I couldn't play anything without the music in front of me. It was discouraging after a while.

I do think leaning the arrangements of others may help with physical skills of playing, but that's about the extent. Now listening to other players is where there are real benefits.

I found what worked best for me over the years was to study methods and take courses to learn tricks, devices, theory, chords etc. to try and incorporate into my own arrangements. For me the only way to learn is to do it and apply what you learn. Playing arrangements by others didn't do that for me. I certainly love listening to others and feel I derive great benefits from that however.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

I spent many years learning the arrangements of others, and also playing in alternate tunings. I feel like I became more or less a bad playback machine. I could never play anything as well as the original, and I don't feel like I learned much. And I couldn't play anything without the music in front of me. It was discouraging after a while.

I do think leaning the arrangements of others may help with physical skills of playing, but that's about the extent. Now listening to other players is where there are real benefits.

I found what worked best for me over the years was to study methods and take courses to learn tricks, devices, theory, chords etc. to try and incorporate into my own arrangements. For me the only way to learn is to do it and apply what you learn. Playing arrangements by others didn't do that for me. I certainly love listening to others and feel I derive great benefits from that however.

Chet Atkins talked about learning the arrangements of others so he could "steal" their ideas. I believe that it depends on how you go about learning the arrangements and what your motivation might be. To analyze another's arrangements, one would need to know something about music. To just learn to play the arrangement, is a matter of patience and perseverance, and is pretty much a purely physical activity of getting the fingers to the right places at the right time.

Rick Ruskin has talked about how you can learn to "wiggle your fingers" to play the right notes vs understanding what you are doing. In other words, one can just blindly learn somebody else's arrangement and just recite it without the brain being involved in the process. Or, you can learn the arrangement and analyze toward understanding what you are playing so you can take ideas from it and apply them to your own efforts.

So, to me, there is a bit more detail involved, that on close examination reveals that learning other people's arrangements can have real value for those who want to learn to play like that arranger (or at least steal the ideas you like), but with their own arrangements.

Then again, some people just want to be that "play back machine", and enjoy doing a good job of playing somebody else's arrangements. Classical guitarist do that all the time, playing restaurant gigs using arrangements by the likes of Howard Heitmeyer, Harold Streeter, or Stan Ayeroff - high quality arrangements that really sound good when played by a skilled classical guitarist.

It really depends on what a person wants to accomplish.

Tony