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  #16  
Old 03-28-2017, 05:45 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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175 is laminate.

"Pressed" means different stuff in the arch top world=pressed solid top.

Laminate is not a dirty word in archtops...they're much better for many things. There's a reason the 175 is the most recorded "jazz guitar" ever, and it has nothing to do with being some Luthier carved exclusive thing. It's a working players guitar...a real guitar.
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  #17  
Old 03-28-2017, 06:14 PM
bholder bholder is offline
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
175 is laminate.

"Pressed" means different stuff in the arch top world=pressed solid top.

Laminate is not a dirty word in archtops...they're much better for many things. There's a reason the 175 is the most recorded "jazz guitar" ever, and it has nothing to do with being some Luthier carved exclusive thing. It's a working players guitar...a real guitar.
Yeah, I got that, was just making the wrong assumption, never thought to check. I don't love the 175 any less.
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  #18  
Old 03-28-2017, 08:14 PM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
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In the 1930s Gibson referred to their pressed top guitars as Arco Arch. Very common with the Cromwell, Kalamazoo, Recording King and other archtops Gibson sold to keep afloat during the Great Depression.
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  #19  
Old 03-28-2017, 08:19 PM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
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Originally Posted by bholder View Post
I just got a new (to me, very old) Gibson archtop I'm quite sure is carved, but this beast is in a different category alltogether:

She looks and sounds better at 104 years old than I will I'm sure!
I owed a Style U harp guitar back in the late 1960s. I found it hanging on a wall as a decoration in a restaurant and talked the owner into selling it to me. I never could make peace with it though and ended up trading it off.
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  #20  
Old 03-28-2017, 09:22 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by bholder View Post
...I have an older Epiphone acoustic archtop too that I'm sure is pressed laminate (can see it on the unbound edges of the F holes).

I just got a new (to me, very old) Gibson archtop I'm quite sure is carved, but this beast is in a different category alltogether:



She looks and sounds better at 104 years old than I will I'm sure!
As zombywoof said that's a Gibson Style U harp guitar, and I'd date it even earlier than 1913 (pickguards made their first appearance on the 1912 models - yours shows no evidence of ever having had one - and the F-4 style red sunburst became the standard finish in 1913), most likely 1909-1910 based on the bridge (which appears to be original); FYI it's definitely a carved top - Gibson was founded on the concept of adapting violin construction principles to fretted instruments, and this one is no exception...

Here's a little something you might find of interest:

http://www.harpguitars.net/history/g...n_appendix.htm

Note that although the Style U appeared in catalogs through 1937 and on price lists through 1939, the last ones were probably produced no later than the early-20's (roughly coinciding with Lloyd Loar's introduction of the Style 5 "Master" instruments in 1923) as neither illustrations nor written descriptions make any mention of the adjustable truss rod adopted circa 1921; the very few orders that may have come in would have been filled from older inventory still on hand - and I'm sure there's a lucky employee or two who may have taken home the last remaining pieces around the time of Pearl Harbor...

Having been born just a couple blocks from the old 14th Street factory, I've been a big fan of New York Epiphone archtops since I started playing in 1962. Although certain lower-line acoustic models (Blackstone, Zenith, Olympic, Byron, Ritz) employed pressed backs, the top of every instrument I've ever played - probably a good couple hundred over 55 years - was always carved solid wood; unlike Gibson - who used solid carved tops on their flagship Super 400/L-5 electrics - even the top-of-the-line Emperor and Deluxe electrics were all-laminated, as was the rest of the New York-era electric lineup. While it's possible that an equivalent model to Gibson's all-laminated L-48 was produced during the '60s Kalamazoo days (not too likely given that sales of the L-48/L-50 were virtually nil), or an all-acoustic model was built on a leftover laminated New York electric body, I've yet to see one in person - and I'd be very interested to see detailed photos of yours, including any labels, markings inside the body, etc...
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  #21  
Old 03-29-2017, 05:21 AM
bholder bholder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
I owed a Style U harp guitar back in the late 1960s. I found it hanging on a wall as a decoration in a restaurant and talked the owner into selling it to me. I never could make peace with it though and ended up trading it off.
Yeah, I hear you, I may end up doing the same, but got to give it a try. The guitar side holds a tuning surprisingly well, but I don't know if I'll be able to get the harp strings to hold. Ordered new strings and a tuning wrench, we'll find out.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2017, 05:26 AM
bholder bholder is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
As zombywoof said that's a Gibson Style U harp guitar, and I'd date it even earlier than 1913 (pickguards made their first appearance on the 1912 models - yours shows no evidence of ever having had one - and the F-4 style red sunburst became the standard finish in 1913), most likely 1909-1910 based on the bridge (which appears to be original); FYI it's definitely a carved top - Gibson was founded on the concept of adapting violin construction principles to fretted instruments, and this one is no exception...

Here's a little something you might find of interest:

http://www.harpguitars.net/history/g...n_appendix.htm

Note that although the Style U appeared in catalogs through 1937 and on price lists through 1939, the last ones were probably produced no later than the early-20's (roughly coinciding with Lloyd Loar's introduction of the Style 5 "Master" instruments in 1923) as neither illustrations nor written descriptions make any mention of the adjustable truss rod adopted circa 1921; the very few orders that may have come in would have been filled from older inventory still on hand - and I'm sure there's a lucky employee or two who may have taken home the last remaining pieces around the time of Pearl Harbor...

Having been born just a couple blocks from the old 14th Street factory, I've been a big fan of New York Epiphone archtops since I started playing in 1962. Although certain lower-line acoustic models (Blackstone, Zenith, Olympic, Byron, Ritz) employed pressed backs, the top of every instrument I've ever played - probably a good couple hundred over 55 years - was always carved solid wood; unlike Gibson - who used solid carved tops on their flagship Super 400/L-5 electrics - even the top-of-the-line Emperor and Deluxe electrics were all-laminated, as was the rest of the New York-era electric lineup. While it's possible that an equivalent model to Gibson's all-laminated L-48 was produced during the '60s Kalamazoo days (not too likely given that sales of the L-48/L-50 were virtually nil), or an all-acoustic model was built on a leftover laminated New York electric body, I've yet to see one in person - and I'd be very interested to see detailed photos of yours, including any labels, markings inside the body, etc...
Thanks for all the info! Checked my Epi, yeah, one piece top, I thought it was ply. It's been through at least one amateur refin, and I can't find any marks or labels other then the headstock logo (on which the inlay is lifting, almost peeling). I'll get some pics.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2017, 05:41 AM
bholder bholder is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
...Blackstone...
Now that you mention it, yeah, sounds familiar, I think mine is a Blackstone, or at least, the person I bought it from thought so.
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2017, 11:42 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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My research has led me to believe that all Epi electric archtops (Zephyr, et al) from the 1930's to the late 1950's were laminated top and back, and who knows about the sides. Some had nicely figured maple on both top and back, some had spruce as the outer layer (My 1946 Zephyr has spruce top and maple back). Bracing varied a lot depending on the pickups. Mine has a top mounted pickup (no routed hole through the top) and absolutely no bracing inside at all. On the other hand, I think all of their acoustics were carved top. If you go to the second link below, and download the 1944 Epiphone catalog there is some great stuff with pictures of the factory, carving and graduating machine-roughed tops, carving necks, etc.

Good site for Epi-lovers: http://wiedler.ch/nyepireg/default.html

Great site for anyone who loves old guitars - a repository of catalogs! http://acousticmusic.org/research/hi...logs/#Epiphone
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Last edited by MC5C; 03-29-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-29-2017, 12:37 PM
bholder bholder is offline
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FWIW - My Epi is acoustic only, and the top looks one piece, but it may be pressed rather than carved - looks uniform thickness, but hard to tell for sure.
I'll get some pics of it to post. No idea what year it is or how to even figure that out.

Last edited by bholder; 03-29-2017 at 12:47 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-29-2017, 02:35 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bholder View Post
...No idea what year it is or how to even figure that out.
Post the pics - there's a bunch of us here who can do that...
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2017, 02:54 PM
bholder bholder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Post the pics - there's a bunch of us here who can do that...
Ok, I'll get some and start another thread for the Epi. Already overloaded this one too much.

The neck pickup for my Chinese Ace came in, turns out to be a used Kent Armstrong Smooth Sam rather than a Slimbucker, it's a bit tight, but if I can find some thin flexible hookup wire, I think it will fit just fine. Matches perfectly.
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2017, 04:42 PM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post

Having been born just a couple blocks from the old 14th Street factory, I've been a big fan of New York Epiphone archtops since I started playing in 1962. Although certain lower-line acoustic models (Blackstone, Zenith, Olympic, Byron, Ritz) employed pressed backs, the top of every instrument I've ever played - probably a good couple hundred over 55 years - was always carved solid wood;

WWII-period Zeniths, Blackstones and others can be found that were built with pressed tops. I have gotten a hold of a few over the decades.
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:21 AM
Mr. Scott Mr. Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
I believe the Gibson ES175 was a pressed top guitar.
You are right, it is. Or almost so; it's actually a laminated (ply) top.

Last edited by Mr. Scott; 03-30-2017 at 05:28 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2017, 07:20 AM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
You are right, it is. Or almost so; it's actually a laminated (ply) top.
Gibson even went with a laminated top on their 160E in 1955. I believe it was supposed to cut down on feedback.
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